Bad relationship

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  • #69060
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    laura hun…breathe…will see u next week and then again and then again…until i go home …ok…now…in the meantime..just enjoy him with what you can manage…and stop being a worrywort…you got the focus at all criteria’s except other dogs yes? ok i know you have worked hard for that…this just the last step …the last bit in the puzzle…will bring amilou…that will add some haha will it not claire  😀  chill flower…we sort this once and for all ..ok…i promise ..xxx

    #69061
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hiya Laura,

    bev is right its not the criteria per-se its the “distractions” will he work at low criteria with low distractions (e.g. one of your dogs in the house, or perhaps a friends dog that he knows in your garden) ?  You can build focus during distractions like this to some extent.

    when bev was here she did some work on bonnie’s “leaveit” i worked it up the criteria just like you’ve done with dodger (well done) but when she saw rabbits she would just go deaf and chase them unless i (like you) happened to have a ball with me.

    it sounds like ball is dodgers highest favouritest reward just like it was for bonnie and you can use this to your advantage still but slightly swap around the way he sees it.

    I can now use “leaveit” if she’s focussed on something else before using “come” to get her to come away from rabbits right up to the moment before the chase kicks in (ie when she’s scented them, leaning into them and stiffened ready to go) very reliable and fluent and get her off an actual chase with reliablility but less fluency.

    It sounds like this might help you and dodger too ?

    The way I did it was to use the clicker and her ball.  Use the clicker normally as your marker but instead of treating with food (which was a lower resource for her than chasing rabbits) reward with the ball (which is a higher resource than rabbit chasing – i didnt condition this, she came with severely obsessive ball behaviours).  You need to wear a coat with a large pocket so you can whip it out quick and do ball throw big reward if he is good.  That way you are using the ball as a reward not as a management tool.

    2 vital things which i cannot say how much they help are 1) strong management preparing and during walk before offlead work and 2) getting your cues in early early if you think you are entering an area where dogs might be do some cued heelwork and praise to get the focus, do some sit / down / wait etc … to keep his brain ticking on you not just “idling along on walk mode”

    Bev also got my emergency stop behaviour using a ball as the reward too – it is very useful and you dont feel like you arent in control without a ball like you do using a ball to manage if ya get me

    I dont know if this is right tho so wait till kiz posts 🙂

    Claire x

    #69062
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi,

    Bev is right (as ever) you deserve a bloody good slap on the back for the work you have done I know how difficult it is and you have some resolve to get through it.  What you are aiming for is very very high level training – you will get there.

    Bev bringing Ami will certainly add a little pzazz to the training sessions.  She has matured and really stepped up recently and is a very nice girl to work with.  Get a good nights rest before the day and dont plan anything for the evening either – you need your brain on and it needs to recover after lol !!  It is amazing to have the opportunity to do this kind of work as many trainers do not have working dogs like Bev does.  Even if you dont have full confidence in Dodger – put your trust in Bev and Ami to try and ease the nerves as they’ll transfer down that lead and through your voice cues 🙂

    Also – while Bev is there ask her to have a look at Tila see what she suggests having seen them “in the flesh” so to speak ?

    Claire x

    #69063
    Dree
    Member

    [quote author=piglet link=topic=12456.msg240930#msg240930 date=1221634503]
    hi,

    I may be just a “mere owner” and have no desire to train other peoples dogs for a living because I dont have time for work – but I have done some absolutely amazing things with my dogs and my fosters – I am very proud of it.   

    Dree – Why did you never go beyond management and socialise her properly with people and dogs?  I find it very hard to buy that it was all her breeding and that a “dog trainer” couldnt achieve this? 

    Kiz is the best behaviourist and trainer in the country and probably the whole world IMO.

    claire.
    [/quote]

    Claire, with the greatest of respect, what I have achieved with Nell I am very, very proud of.  If I hadn’t trained her and managed her, she would have been pts.  She doesn’t *like* other dogs or people….that is her, and no-one, but no-one, can change a dog’s character.  She went to shows every weekend, so she was socialised.  But she didn’t *want* to meet other dogs, and detests being touched by people or dogs.  I’m not quite sure why you should assume that she was not socialised?  This is a dog off strong working stock….both dam and sire were rescues, but the bitch’s line was traced….all we knew of the dog was that he was off cow stock.  Her mother was *exactly* the same….in fact, she came to me to be re-trained due to her flying at people.  A lovely dog with us, but, believe me, she was practically evil with other people.  (My mother was terrified of her…and that was only the dog looking at her!)  Nell has had a very happy life with us, and worked in Ticket with me until she was retired at 11.  We never won a Ticket, but we had great fun trying, leading one…and failing scent  :(…..achieving 3rds and 4ths….always seeming to just miss out on the big green one.  But the most important thing is that we enjoyed ourselves, and now she is enjoying her retirement.  :happy:

    I am glad that Kiz is such a brilliant trainer.  🙂  I look forward to reading her ideas for this dog, and others.

    #69064
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    not sure what idea you want or expect re your dog  :-\ our dogs are our ambassadors is all i ever say…and if they have reasons for being what or rather what is not expected then so be it…ami does not like men with scottish accents…she has a valid reason…it is managed..so be it….so am puzzled…

    my only comment that would poss disagree with your methods is the sustained down in a potentiallyiffy situation…but we do what we do what works…personally i wouldnt do that with a dog that was edgy..but…

    #69065
    Dree
    Member

    [quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=12456.msg241035#msg241035 date=1221663691]
    not sure what idea you want or expect re your dog  :-\ our dogs are our ambassadors is all i ever say…and if they have reasons for being what or rather what is not expected then so be it…ami does not like men with scottish accents…she has a valid reason…it is managed..so be it….so am puzzled…

    my only comment that would poss disagree with your methods is the sustained down in a potentiallyiffy situation…but we do what we do what works…personally i wouldnt do that with a dog that was edgy..but…
    [/quote]

    Is this in reply to my post about Nell??  (I must admit not quoting has me wondering who you are replying to.)  :confused:

    #69066
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    I am glad that Kiz is such a brilliant trainer.    I look forward to reading her ideas for this dog, and others.

    quote…

    #69067
    wags
    Member

    Laura – you need to chill a little

    Cjane – you need to give that dog to me and thats an :order:

    :yes:

    #69068
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    ahhh…right ..when you say ‘this dog’ you mean dodger not as in your last post ie this dog meaning your dog…ok …think i understand…

    laura and i been chatting since he arrived…on board and off… lots of posts re dodger boy….

    happy to put up the training records etc …assuming laura agree’s

    #69069
    cjane
    Member

    Thanks for all your useful comments. It’s good get some feedback, and I can always rely on this forum to help out.

    Mudgie – Kiz has not worked with us face-to-face but she has offered a great deal on advice on the forum.

    Kerry – I guess he is high drive but he’s our first dog, so can’t really judge. I remember when you joined, we were just getting ready to pickup our boy and I read with interest your posts thinking ‘I hope we have better luck’, if only.

    Laura – sounds like you’ve got similar issues with Dodger.  I’ll have a look for your posts and get some background.  Will be very interested to hear how you progress with Kiz.

    Wags – next time we’re in Barrow …

    Piglet – we were keeping up the management in the house, being quite strict with him, but then were advised as part of our bonding to ease off, let him sleep in the bedroom and play more. Same thing on the walk, less management/control more play.

    Suz – finding a reward that works in the presence of high value distractions (other dogs), is one of our problems.

    Dree – you sound you’ve lots of experience of training and I’ll take some time to re-read your suggestions.

    Kiz – I think I’m stuck in a cycle of ‘what doesn’t work now, try something else’.

    I need to clarify my situation (in my own mind) and come up with a way forward. Unfortunately the person we were working with can no longer see us and so I’m left on my own again, trying to figure out what to do next.

    CJ

    #69070
    Dree
    Member

    [quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=12456.msg241057#msg241057 date=1221665615]
    ahhh…right ..when you say ‘this dog’ you mean dodger not as in your last post ie this dog meaning your dog…ok …think i understand…

    laura and i been chatting since he arrived…on board and off… lots of posts re dodger boy….

    happy to put up the training records etc …assuming laura agree’s
    [/quote]

    I actually meant the original poster, which is CJ and her dog.  But Dodger too.  🙂

    Yes, would be nice to read the training records, if that’s okay with Laura.  :yes:

    #69071
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    dree…well as i havnt worked or assessed one to one…only my previous posts can stand re cj

    cj

    Piglet – we were keeping up the management in the house, being quite strict with him, but then were advised as part of our bonding to ease off, let him sleep in the bedroom and play more. Same thing on the walk, less management/control more play.

    more info please hun…much more info….esp re sleeping in bedroom and the type of play advised…what was done before your trainer quit re traffic issues etc…

    #69072
    Dree
    Member

    [quote author=Dree link=topic=12456.msg241041#msg241041 date=1221664297]
    [quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=12456.msg241035#msg241035 date=1221663691]
    not sure what idea you want or expect re your dog  :-\ our dogs are our ambassadors is all i ever say…and if they have reasons for being what or rather what is not expected then so be it…ami does not like men with scottish accents…she has a valid reason…it is managed..so be it….so am puzzled…

    my only comment that would poss disagree with your methods is the sustained down in a potentiallyiffy situation…but we do what we do what works…personally i wouldnt do that with a dog that was edgy..but…
    [/quote]

    Is this in reply to my post about Nell??  (I must admit not quoting has me wondering who you are replying to.)  :confused:
    [/quote]

    Kiz?  Is this about Nell?  If so, I’ll reply!  ;D

    #69073
    Anonymous
    Guest

    a little off topic but I think Nell sounds gorgeous and wish her a happy retirement 🙂  i wasnt belittling what you had done already (which is alot – working collies are my “thing” so i know they dont come out the womb like on 1man and his dog ;)).  I think we’re meaning different things by “socialised” – correct me please if i’m wrong here but I have the idea that Nell can “be around other dogs” using the down – when i say socialised i mean running / playing / interacting at whatever level without being under such close management.

    oh and to prove i’m not some clever invincible lady – a dog picked a fight with my William tonight in the park.  Bonnie nicked off with its ball after i sent her to greet not noticing it had dropped one near its feet and I think he just got in the way when it was already miffed !  No harm done but boxer owners were a bit ruffled !

    CJ – Dogs in bedroom is a personal thing – I personally wouldnt let a dog in my room in this situation, obviously you can play – just on your terms 🙂

    Claire x

    #69074
    Dree
    Member

    [quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=12456.msg241035#msg241035 date=1221663691]
    not sure what idea you want or expect re your dog  :-\ our dogs are our ambassadors is all i ever say…and if they have reasons for being what or rather what is not expected then so be it…ami does not like men with scottish accents…she has a valid reason…it is managed..so be it….so am puzzled…

    my only comment that would poss disagree with your methods is the sustained down in a potentiallyiffy situation…but we do what we do what works…personally i wouldnt do that with a dog that was edgy..but…
    [/quote]

    If this is about Nell….not sure what you are saying re: what I want or expect….I don’t want anything….so apologies if any confusion.

    The instant down was never, ever sustained.  I would not place an insecure dog in a sustained down.  She was flying out to a person or dog some distance away….could be ten yards or twenty or thirty.  So plenty of time to shout “Down”….dog downs, I go to dog and reward for the instant down, and place on lead.  The person or dog that she was flying at have had no time to react.  In fact, they usually didn’t even see what was happening.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 181 total)
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