cause and effect – conscious choice or not…

[Diesel73]

quote :

and i am very sad that you didn’t mention my blow up sheep comment.  :'( i was very proud of that one (i know i know, small things amuse small minds….  😀 )

Bwahahaha  😀 . Tell you what; this weekend i’m going back to the store that has vibrating dogbeds…. will ask if they got inflateble sheep for my boys  >:D .  😀 hahaha

quote :

naaah – what goes in suitcase associated with what has been pleasurable experience in past – one reaction acording to memory and chemical release in body …

Is that not how memory is created too? Brain making new bridges between….. uhm neuronen? (long time since i studied biologie  ::)  :-[ ) It is a physical thing in the brain too.

quote :

ah – but body language can be very subtle – and dogs can smell and detect changes in body chemicals etc – so there may be sufficient difference when you are expecting OH home to give them signals that to them result in a particular consequence – ie OH arriving home; ditto for going to friend’s house.

True. I don’t agree that is always how dogs know who is coming when, but what you say is true.

Got different example. From tues-til friday, store open from 8.30 till 19.00. Even if wife and i are in store and boys in livingroom, so they don’t see, nor hear us…. they won’t bark at all at the doorringer til 19.00. Someone comes in or goes out at let’s say 19.15, they bark to say stranger’s coming.And how they know it’s saterday and we close at 16.00…. is beyond me  ??? . You, Lassie, anyone, tell me. (i like picking brains  😀 . )

[*Lassie*]

And how they know it’s saterday and we close at 16.00…. is beyond me

My two at 8.00 on a Friday night get a special treat, I can be busy doing something and forget so they come and bark at me as a reminder. Dogs do have a concept of time so therefore of future.

ah – but body language can be very subtle – and dogs can smell and detect changes in body chemicals etc – so there may be sufficient difference when you are expecting OH home to give them signals that to them result in a particular consequence – ie OH arriving home; ditto for going to friend’s house.

Disagree, If for some reason we don’t go to my friend’s house e.g. she is going out, the dogs still think we are going because it’s the day we always go.

Nothing to do with the subject but…..
They also can tell the difference in the ring tones on my phone, they recognize the tones set for my Husband, Mother and my friend each one is different.
If the phone goes off with my friends tone they bark, Mother or Husband they wag their tails.
I think they understand more than we give them credit for.

[GSPmad]

And how they know it’s saterday and we close at 16.00…. is beyond me

My two at 8.00 on a Friday night get a special treat, I can be busy doing something and forget so they come and bark at me as a reminder. Dogs do have a concept of time so therefore of future.

ok – they also have body clocks – like how if we are used to waking up at a certain time of day then we do even if we are tryig to sleep in – or stomach says it’s time for tea, etc. so i would say there they are working on body clock not thinking ahead.  😉

[b]ah – but body language can be very subtle – and dogs can smell and detect changes in body chemicals etc – so there may be sufficient difference when you are expecting OH home to give them signals that to them result in a particular consequence – ie OH arriving home; ditto for going to friend’s house.[/b]

Disagree, If for some reason we don’t go to my friend’s house e.g. she is going out, the dogs still think we are going because it’s the day we always go.

as above – body clock – routine.  🙂

Nothing to do with the subject but…..
They also can tell the difference in the ring tones on my phone, they recognize the tones set for my Husband, Mother and my friend each one is different.
If the phone goes off with my friends tone they bark, Mother or Husband they wag their tails.
I think they understand more than we give them credit for.

oh that i agree with. clever clever clever they are, and very very loveable. but i still don’t think they have a concept of the future.  🙂

[Diesel73]

quote :

oh that i agree with. clever clever clever they are, and very very loveable. but i still don’t think they have a concept of the future. 

ok, can accept that, but you do agree that they have concept of past, right?
Than i got question. With humans male brain works different from females. You think it is the same for dogs? Like men and women memory is different because women remember itty bitty details and men usualy do not. You think is the same for dogs and bitches or….?

[wags]

I think every dog is very diffrent

the dog at the start of the thread is a Manchester Terrier – a dog that traditionally would be living on its wits – going to have considerablly more brain power and know how to make the best out of a situation

mmmmmmmmmmm i think you can go round and round and round debating this and never really getting anywhere

Meg has very little concept of anything – time, space, self awareness, self control –
i dont know if she has a concept of things gone on in the past BUT she has a deap routed fear of people – its not really a consistant fear either like men with beards its all people giving her eye contact – she also has a deap routed fear of sticks etc being waved about. So does she remember being beaten ? does she assosicate people with being hurt and scared ? – i dont know if this is remembering the past or just associations or even if thats the same thing.

Cleo on the opposite side of the scale is about as bright as it gets – she is more than able to manipulate the situation in her favour – she is a true opertunist and always sezes (spelling) the moment – if she did something like the dog in the OP then i would put it down as her being an intelligent little madam who knows how to work her human (she would prob click treat me in the process)

[GSPmad]

[quote author=Diesel73 link=topic=11567.msg228140#msg228140 date=1215110669]

quote :

oh that i agree with. clever clever clever they are, and very very loveable. but i still don’t think they have a concept of the future. 

ok, can accept that, but you do agree that they have concept of past, right?
Than i got question. With humans male brain works different from females. You think it is the same for dogs? Like men and women memory is different because women remember itty bitty details and men usualy do not. You think is the same for dogs and bitches or….?
[/quote]

now we are going off at a tangent a bit – but yes i would agree with that one. male and female dogs have different roles within the pack, different hormone levels, and i would say brain and memory will function slightly differently (and on balance the girls will be more clever  ;D ;D ;D ).

bev – are you ever going to give us an answer?  :-\

[*Lassie*]

bev – are you ever going to give us an answer?

We are waiting Bev ;D

[Diesel73]

[quote author=*Lassie* link=topic=11567.msg228484#msg228484 date=1215284187]
bev – are you ever going to give us an answer?

We are waiting Bev ;D
[/quote]
I don’t expect this to happen at all but  ::) ….. man, i would bang my head to the wall if she says ‘don’t know’  :-X  😛 ….

[GSPmad]

thinking of animals and human emotions etc has reminded me…. did we ever get an answer to this?  🙂

[*Lassie*]

[quote author=GSPmad link=topic=11567.msg243094#msg243094 date=1222718736]
thinking of animals and human emotions etc has reminded me…. did we ever get an answer to this?  🙂
[/quote]

We are STILL waiting, think she got side tracked ;D

[kizkiznobite]

ahhh..i had forgotten this  😀

ok so a summary someone please…of thoughts and responses  ;D

[GSPmad]

i think we did it to death bev….  😀 what’s the answer?

[*Nick*]

A summary!?!  :laugh: :laugh:

I believe everyone decided that the answer was …..11.

the answer is always 11.

[Foxisle_crazy]

[quote author=*Nick* link=topic=11567.msg243123#msg243123 date=1222721363]
A summary!?!  :laugh: :laugh:

I believe everyone decided that the answer was …..11.

the answer is always 11.
[/quote]
😀 😀

OMG, i cant believe this was 3months ago!!  Where has the year gone  ::)

[GSPmad]

i had always been assured the answer was 42.  :-\ nick, how could you do that to me?  :'( ;D ;D

[Author]

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