choke chains

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  • #99295
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    or to learn real fear….have seen a dog so conditioned to spraying water that even filling the bowl and splashing natural fall out from taps sent him flying off quivering….

    but yep…lets take the operant stuff elsewhere…basically

    choke.checks whatever you call them…we now know better…they not needed…

    #99296
    quote :

    something added to make behaviour decrease
    is positive punishment

    something added to make behaviour increase
    is positive reinforcement

    something taken away to make behaviour decrease
    is negative punishment

    something taken away to make behaviour increase
    is negative reinforcement

    i get that but … i just dont see it like that – no amount of reading it seems to change my mind into knowing that dog pulls – lead tugged – dog stops … is  P+ (you add the tug punishing the dog and the dog stops pulling).  its just logical it just … is ?

    #99297

    i’m not arguing it is P+ … i understand it isnt its R-  i just dont *know* it isnt

    what i *know* is that its P+ and my stubborn brain wont budge

    #99298
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    no claire…think…go out of the box…3-5 min rule…what to the dog takes over…avoiding or thinking if i do i get….what is instictive or reactive….

    #99299

    messrs abraham, seligman + teasdale and their dog cages with electrified floors

    …. would say working to avoid and is thus reactive and i guess i agree.

    #99300

    claire you are not the only one i am exactly the same, i know it (i really do) but i have to force the imformation, it is not natural knowledge like alot of student just learn it, done its fine they can apply to whatever easily, i can’t it takes me ages dissecting it and applying it…hopefully it will get easier and at some point my brain will just accept it, but i don’t know  :surprise:

    #99301
    Anonymous
    Guest

    [quote author=Bilclarie link=topic=13940.msg264266#msg264266 date=1237800545]
    There actually called check chains not choke chains and I have always used them to train a puppy to walk to heal, which is why as adults mine only need wear a normal collar when out on the lead, check chains if put on and used right are a good training aid.
    call them what you like they still choke

    Mo and the Gang
    [/quote]

    #99302
    Anonymous
    Guest

    [quote author=Bilclarie link=topic=13940.msg264266#msg264266 date=1237800545]
    There actually called check chains not choke chains and I have always used them to train a puppy to walk to heal, which is why as adults mine only need wear a normal collar when out on the lead, check chains if put on and used right are a good training aid.

    Mo and the Gang
    [/quote]call the chain check but what does it do choke they should have been banned years ago

    #99303
    phila67
    Member

    Why is everyone calling them choke chains? The name for them is Check Chain. Caloing them choke chains gives the immediate impression that, that is how you use them, to choke your dog.

    I can see why many people are against them – because they are used incorrectly by the vast majority of people. If used correctly they are as effective as any other collar that you put on your dog, and likewise used incorrectly can cause as many problems as any other collar. If you pull tight enough on ANY collar it can damage a dogs neck.

    I personally do not have an issue with them IF USED CORRECTLY.

    #99304

    Is there a correct way to choke a dog?  Which is exactly what a chain does whatever you want to call it

    #99305
    Diesel73
    Member
    quote :

    Why is everyone calling them choke chains? The name for them is Check Chain.

    I  call them that cause that is what they do. They choke a dog, as fast or as slow as a person can. As you can pull and hold it close for too long or give it a quick pull and choke the dog for half a second. Never the less choking is what it does.

    quote :

    Caloing them choke chains gives the immediate impression that, that is how you use them, to choke your dog.

    But one does when you use one of those. You don’t choke them to death, or … atleast you are not suppost to, but it is and stays choking.

    quote :

    I can see why many people are against them – because they are used incorrectly by the vast majority of people. If used correctly they are as effective as any other collar that you put on your dog,

    Ok, i’ll go along with your theorie….the majority of people might use them wrong but what is the correct way to use them? For me there is NO correct way to use them. Why resort to such a torment thing when you can reach your goal in a whole different non frightning way?

    quote :

    and likewise used incorrectly can cause as many problems as any other collar.

    Ah your might be correct there as jurking on any kind of collar can give a dog neckproblems. But in my eyes and personal experience, if you got a ‘wanna be husky sledge runner’ all a choke or check chain does is giving that dog a ‘bacon neck’ as we say. A huge trained super muscled neck and at the end you can pull away as much as you want but the result will still be … nothing.

    I got a half check for my youngest. I don’t like it, and it is as good as never closed, not even for a second. But that boy’s got a fine scull with very flexible ears and has found out his ability toget his head out of his collar. So it’s the half check and being sure he can’t run off under a car when he’s spooked, or his normal collar and choke him with thàt or the chance that hy might get him self killed.

    I see tiny puppies of 2-3-4 months old walking around with choke chains, as their masters say dogclubs teach them to correct them instantly to walk at heel. That’s rediculous  ::) . The puppers don’t even get the chance or time to learn.

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