dogs and horses

[kerrie and stan]

whenever i go to see the horses i take stan down with me but he has gotten into an annoying and dangerouse habit of coming over to me whilst i am with one of the horses. the horses dont mind dogs but yesterday one of the horses bolted with a long line attatched so we had to catch hold of it before it injured itself and whilst we were trying to get the horse stan was constantly coming in the field (despite me telling him to get out and stay) and with a semi wild horse running round it isnt a good idea.
i did get realy angry at stan and i did throw a leadrope at him, it didnt hit him, but short of tying him up every time i go and do anything with one of the horses i am at a loss as to what to do.
please help me ???

[Anonymous]

Am not an expert (as you know!) but would seem to me that the prob isn’t actually dogs and horses – but that stan needs to listen to a specific command in this situation eg. Stay?

I take Loki up to the field with me (off lead) when catching the horses – i park him by the gate and say ‘stay’ – then he waits for me to come back with the horse. When I am back – i release him and we walk back down together. He knows he isn’t allowed into the fields where the horses are – although he could easily duck under the fence.

Could you also teach him to stay a certain distance from horses?  Loki does this naturally after nearly being trodden on at a young age  :-[  but if I say to him ‘stay by’ he stays within a few feet of me – so you kind of need a ‘get back’ maybe? Which would mean don’t come within 10 ft of a horse?

Will let the experts advise properly tho  🙂

ETS: I know you were telling him to get out and stay – but he obviously didn’t listen – so do you need to do some training on those comands without horses there? So he definately knows what you are asking?  ???

[Sweetypye]

I wonder what you would do if the field was not one full of horses but actually a motorway?!

Just a thought.

FWIW I agree with the above, the dog is insufficiently trained, so either train the dog or tie it up.

[kerrie and stan]

sweetypye i think thats a bit harsh

stan is trained and he has stayed outside the field when ive been with the horses before its only recently that he has started coming in after me, come to think of it i got knocked over by one of the horses on thursday and stan came into the field at that point and that is when his staying out went down hill, so perhaps that is a link??
if it is then how would i go about reasuring him that he can stay out the field and i will be ok?

widget he is very good with the horses and does stay a very good distance from them and he will move away a few feet if i tell him.

[Anonymous]

Is good he stays a distance away from the horses 🙂

Interesting about him coming in since you got knocked over.  I fell off Iggy once while Loki was with us and he stood kind of guarding the horse, not letting him go by. I don’t know if he was protecting me or keeping the horse still – but it was useful because he stopped him runnning home!  (we were on a track – not near a road, but still)

One of the others will know better what to try – but I am guessing you kind of need to take your training back a stage and re-inforce the training without horses in the filed? Then move back up to having them in there? Not sure if that practical?

[Sweetypye]

What did I say that was harsh, that your dog was undertrained?

I would not risk my dog getting potentially fatally kicked or my horses being worried.

If your dog is getting up then he is obviously insufficiently trained or disobedient.

[**Woofums**]

My pet hate is loose Dogs on the yard or in fields. We do have a JRT that runs loose on the yard, but it steers clear of the Horses & people.
Mine sit in the back of the car at the yard or in a stable.
Mine will stay in a down & let me get on, but if the Horses are skittish ( they all have mad moments) I worry the Dogs would be in the way.
Mine (Horses & Dogs) all know to step back when I open a gate..regardless of which way it opens.
But at the end of the day, I’d rather deal with one type of animal at a time & God forbid, if there were an emergency to deal with I wouldn’t want to deal with a hurt animal & try & keep an eye on another.

[kerrie and stan]

stan is not disobediant or insufficiantly trained if anything then it is me who is undertrained and not understanding and at no point would i ever put the horses or my dog in any kind of danger. i know that animals are unpredictable but i also know that the horses and dogs would not go out of thier way to injur the other.
quite frankly sweetypye if you arent going to say anything helpfull then please dont post in this thread.

widget i cant realy take the horses out the field as they are still a bit on the wild side, however do you think that telling stan to stay, walking into field then back out and giving release cue and working it back up to staying in field for a few minuets might work?
might message bev to have a look at this thread and see what she thinks

[Anonymous]

I’d ask Bev as she knows far more than I do 🙂

[Val]

There is no point in posting on here if you get defensive over a reply what SP is saying is true if you tell Stan one thing and he’s doing another then the training is not strong enough.
Personally I am with Woofum dogs and horses are a danger to each other unless the dog is trained to the highest standard, it also makes it hard to focus on the job in hand which is training these horses not having to have one eye on a dog that is breaking stays.
Throwing things at a dog is not the way to get over this problem either
Val

[quote author=kerrie and stan link=topic=14391.msg268872#msg268872 date=1245756313]
stan is not disobediant or insufficiantly trained if anything then it is me who is undertrained and not understanding and at no point would i ever put the horses or my dog in any kind of danger. i know that animals are unpredictable but i also know that the horses and dogs would not go out of thier way to injur the other.
quite frankly sweetypye if you arent going to say anything helpfull then please dont post in this thread.

widget i cant realy take the horses out the field as they are still a bit on the wild side, however do you think that telling stan to stay, walking into field then back out and giving release cue and working it back up to staying in field for a few minuets might work?
might message bev to have a look at this thread and see what she thinks
[/quote]

[kerrie and stan]

i was asking for training help not for peoples oppinions on weather or not dogs should be aloud round horses but that fine i shall just do my best and hope that works

[kizkiznobite]

ok….

dogs and horses and man have had a close relationship for hundreds of years…the only thing that changed this 3 way was modern invention of motors….so it was humans that changed things not dogs and horses

i have said many times …and this is also what val and SP are saying …you cannot say a dog is ‘trained’ in a behaviour unless it a ‘martini’….anytime anyplace anywhere….regardless…i have pics of some of my dogs in a ‘stay’ when i am under threat/being attacked…yeah sure ..want to break want to come help…cue is firmer than..

so

no kerrie…stans stay cue is not fluent and reliable ….esp at that criteria…now…you can use whatever words you wish …but at the end of the day if he not following a cue then he is not being ‘obedient’ in that behaviour is he? you can say he is ‘sufficently’ trained…but he isnt at that criteria is he?…otherwise you would not have needed to post this post..it is not a anytime anyplace anywhere cued behaviour…therefore he is not ‘trained’ to a high enough criteria in the stay  ….and also…and i am not having a go…but…you say re not putting him or horses in danger? but …think about it…because in fact you are/have done because the cue is not a ‘martini’ cue is it?

so if you want help then fine…of course i will adviise…but first you just have to accept all of the above

[kerrie and stan]

i accept that he isnt ‘martini’ trained but that has never realy bother me before.

you cannot say a dog is ‘trained’ in a behaviour unless it a ‘martini’….anytime anyplace anywhere i thought that so long as the dog knew the behavour that it was ‘trained’ just not to a high criteria, but i am being nieve and i accept that.

stans stay cue has, as you said bev, been sufficient for what i needed in the past but obviously now the situation has changed (the horses arriving) i need to get him to ‘martini’ stage.

in stans defence though he stayed were i put him and didnt move whilst i was with the horses until that day that i got knocked over, but i know ‘martini’, shouldnt move, even when in danger.

i appologise for getting defencive, i just didnt like the way SP put it, about the main road, as that is a completly different sinario, but thats that and everyone has thier own way of getting thier point across

so please help me so that i dont have to keep tying him up, we have a 5 acre field and i want him to be able to run around and chase the bunnies. the horses are sectioned off in the field so he wont be running round in the same area as the horses.

please and sorry

[kizkiznobite]

ok…so to start i need to know how you have trained the stay and how you have tested that training….
i also need to know if you have wait on cue and when and how it is used and what stan understands is the difference between the 2

[kerrie and stan]

urm…. ok

stan already had a stay cue when i got him but, the way i trained the stay was:
lay down, stay, step back, wait few seconds, walk back to him, big play and praise.
i did this and gradually increased the distance and time i was away from him. then i taught the down at a distance, with a stay for a minuet or so then either a recall or stay until i get to him.

the wait cue i use a lot when crossing roads with him, this is how it goes:
road, sit, wait, i walk into road (ussualy to see round a parked car), here (heel), and cross the road.

i use hand signals with him and with the stay i use a flat hand with palm facing toward him, wait is pointing to were he is sat.

i think he knows the differance between the two because the stay is ussualy conducted whilst he is laid down were as the wait is ussualy conducted whilst he is sat.

testing the stay….urm…..im not to sure what you mean but when im round my sisters the kids like to play with stan in the garden and thier favourate game is hiding the ball, so they get the ball, i cue stay, they hide ball, i / they cue find. is that what you mean? ive also done a stay while i throw ball then retrieval. sorry not completly sure what you want??

[Author]

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