Ideas on a suitable second dog?

[.dodger.]

[quote author=*Lassie* link=topic=13584.msg259771#msg259771 date=1233770802]
http://www.aritaur.co.uk/
Love the picture of Monty ;D
[/quote]

lovely dogs but a little worried about this

‘Therefore why test if you are not going to stand by the results? We very much stand by the results. We will continue to breed from dogs both below and above the breed standard’

‘Caius was the first dog we ever tested and his score came back at 21, double the breed average…..
….his score of 21 never stopped him winning, producing a champion daughter and chasing small animals’

I’m sorry but isn’t the whole point of hip scoring and being a ‘good’ breeder breeding from healthy dogs that will produce healthy pups. I thought the whole point of breeding was to improve the breed not continue to produce puppies with high hip scores even though they may become champions in the ring??

[Anonymous]

hi,

here here Laura – this is part of the whole “pedigree dog” debate thing.

it mystifies me why breeders breed BC’s with hips more than about 8-10 at most but they still knock ’em out at 50+ in pedigree lines 🙁  Beardies are even better – theres alot more choice even with up to 4-6 but you still see them in double figures regularly ??

claire x

[*Nick*]

so , here’s a question ….

if a bitch was healthy, had classic breed representative conformation, perfect temperament and in all other aspects was a spectacular specimen of the breed but had bad hips….would you take her out of the gene pool?

[.dodger.]

i think it can depend on the state that the breed, on a whole, is in and how bad her hips are. I certainly don’t think the situation is black and white but in the case i pointed out it was because he has double the breed average but he also doesn’t have the correct conformation either. I don’t believe he should have been bred from.

‘however, caius has a wide forechest and consequently has bent pasterns. As you can see he walks on the outside of his feet putting great strain on his phalanges and carpus’

[Sweetypye]

How much do you know about breeding Laura?

Bear in mind that the owner of this website did not need to put her dog(s) in the public view; the fact that they did puts them at risk of having their views and facts being misinterpreted.

Do you know how experienced they were when they bred this dog?

Do you know how much more experienced and knowledgeable they are now?

Think back to when you got your GSD, did you have as much knowledge as you should have done before you purchased him?  Were you aware of the hip/elbow scores (if any) of their sire/dam?  Were you aware that the sire should have been blood tested and that both should have been eye tested?

Everyone learns by their mistakes (hopefully)

HD is a polygenic condition and just breeding from 0:0 parents is no guarantee; responsible breeders often breed litters of great scores with one diabolical one.

If only dog breeding was so simple as many people think!

A dog is more than a collection of hips; in Scandinavia where the rules are draconian they have often found that they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater when a less than perfect score has been produced.

On the continent there are 3 degrees of acceptable hip scores and in the US there are 3 systems;

When breeding it is the WHOLE picture plus the background that is requried.

[Anonymous]

What interests me is the concern over dog breeding and the care people take with it. I find it really fascinating.

The same doesn’t seem to hold for cats or horses… many people breed any old cat or horse and no-one criticises them (well not many people do). I realise there are excellent breeders of both cats and horses that do breed responsibily and to improve the breed. But if I posted a pic of a litter of cats or a new foal I had bred on here (or even a horse or cat forum) –  I wonder how many people would criticise it? I’d bet that it wouldn’t be many.

Am not defending irresponisble breeding – but what do you think it is about the dog that makes it more ‘regulated’ in terms of breeding?  🙂

[Bilclarie]

[quote author=*Nick* link=topic=13584.msg259995#msg259995 date=1233888871]
so , here’s a question ….

if a bitch was healthy, had classic breed representative conformation, perfect temperament and in all other aspects was a spectacular specimen of the breed but had bad hips….would you take her out of the gene pool?
[/quote]

Yes, because with bad hip’s she’d never get through a confirmation test as her gait wouldn’t be right, here in France they have to do a confirmation show before a dog can be fully registered and given a perminant pedigree (LOF) when you buy a puppy here you only get a provitional pedigree then once the dog has gone through a confirmation class with a breed judge and he has filed in the paper work you get a full set of papers from the French kennel club for your dog.

I agree with Jaydex if you already have a Dobe get another there are a lot of young male Dobes in the rescue centres and Dobes prefer the company of there own kind I know mine do.

Mo and her ever increasing Gang

[latifah]

Bilclaire
We would love to help a rescue dobe, but we have 4 children aged 6,8,10 and 11 and most rescue centres wont allow a big dog like a dobe to go to such homes with young children.

Would a male be best suited as a pet to go with our girl, she plays with both sexes happily?

[Anonymous]

Get in touch with Chris at DRA you can fill out a form on the forum, because you already have a dobe it may be in your favour 🙂

[.dodger.]

[quote author=Sweetypye link=topic=13584.msg260020#msg260020 date=1233920546]
How much do you know about breeding Laura?

Bear in mind that the owner of this website did not need to put her dog(s) in the public view; the fact that they did puts them at risk of having their views and facts being misinterpreted.

Do you know how experienced they were when they bred this dog?

Do you know how much more experienced and knowledgeable they are now?

Think back to when you got your GSD, did you have as much knowledge as you should have done before you purchased him?  Were you aware of the hip/elbow scores (if any) of their sire/dam?  Were you aware that the sire should have been blood tested and that both should have been eye tested?

Everyone learns by their mistakes (hopefully)

HD is a polygenic condition and just breeding from 0:0 parents is no guarantee; responsible breeders often breed litters of great scores with one diabolical one.

If only dog breeding was so simple as many people think!

A dog is more than a collection of hips; in Scandinavia where the rules are draconian they have often found that they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater when a less than perfect score has been produced.

On the continent there are 3 degrees of acceptable hip scores and in the US there are 3 systems;

When breeding it is the WHOLE picture plus the background that is requried.
[/quote]

i understand what you are saying but the point i was making was the comment how they will continue to breed from dogs that have both below and above the breed average to this date. That does not sound like are inexperienced to me just making a choice that i don’t agree with.

[Sweetypye]

Informed choice is a little more discriminating though than uninformed choice when you have all the facts before you rather than making a judgement on a couple of paragraphs from a website.

When you are more experienced you will understand that making a decision about mating requires that you take into account a huge amount of data.

There is also a misconception that bad hips automatically mean poor gait!  They do not!

I have seen dogs with 0:0 hips that move like cripples and dogs with appalling hip scores that move like a dream; that is the whole purpose of hip scoring you CANNOT tell if your dogs have good hips SOLELY by observation; if you could there would be no necessity to take x rays would there?  :ok:

[Anonymous]

quote :

HD is a polygenic condition and just breeding from 0:0 parents is no guarantee; responsible breeders often breed litters of great scores with one diabolical one.

If only dog breeding was so simple as many people think!

even tho it is polygenic – there is a much better chance of getting good hips if you start with good hips and have lines with good hips … surely you’re not arguing against this ??

i wouldnt have a dog from parentage with crappy hips.  there is just no need to take this extra risk.  i wouldnt consider ppl who do this responsible either in most cases.

i agree hips arent everything but if scores are high i feel they should be taken out of the gene pool in many cases.

claire.

[Bilclarie]

Hi Latifa

If I were you I would go for a dog (male) if your going to get another one, most rescues wouldn’t rehome another female with you anyway as you already have one, I had rescues in and out of my house and I had 3 small children, the best dog I have ever owned was a rescue who not only had no hair and I mean none we didn’t know what colour she was going to be as she was covered in sarcoptic mange, and she had also been used as an ash tray, so just because they’ve had a hard time doesn’t mean there not ok with people / kids, oh and she was a black and tan eventually.

I’ve know top breeders breed from dog’s with OK hips scores and they have gone on to produce some crippled puppys so yes I would remove any dog from a gene pool if it meant the likelyhood of getting better hips scores from prodgeny, I have also attended shows where judges have ask exibitors to remove there dogs from the ring after they have seen them move round because there hips aren’t right
fortunatley all my own dogs are A or A+ which is 0-6  I personally would use one of my boy’s on a female unless she was A or B and I wouldn’t use a stud if it wasn’t A or B

Mo and the Gang

[Author]

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