Multiple clicks on clicker training?

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  • #61895
    Chewy
    Member

    Just a general question oh knowlagable people wot yez are ;D
    We had the last two sessions of our socialisation class cancelled and refunded as the trainer lady’s job moved to a sat. A replacment man came in to take this last class.
    Now he would tell us to click (where previously the last trainer had told us to use our voice “good…good” to let the dog know that it was on the right track) instead of verbally, then double click for that moment of ttelling the dogs “THATS the one” THEN treat.
    We had a class full of puppies that looked pissed off that the treats were not coming and losing interest within 30 mins.
    Everything I had read and spoke to people about clicker training is that you only EVER click for the behaviour AND you must always treat after?

    I know this guy does the follow on class and I think agility classes so do they click it differently?
    but he started asking us to do sequencing, ya know doing three or four behaviours in sequence which I understood what he meant, but the exercise itself blew my mind never mind Diz’s. I though you needed to teach the behaviours seperatly then you could add them together or freeshape them?
    We had to throw the treat in the room, walk the dog past it saying leave, keep them to heel in a circle, past another puppy, again “leave” and then back to the treat and say “In your bed” which was where the treat had origionally fallen. All the while clicking whenever the dog was doing it right but not treating til it got to the treat in its “bed” where you would give that last click just before they got there.

    I’d like to do a follow on class or somthing with Diz but this guy has really confused me, and this is going to sound cheeky but is he doing it right?

    #77590
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi,

    click to mark the correct behaviour immediately then treat straight away too until the behaviour is well in place and on cue then you can start varying the rewards.  all classes should click this way – your guy is plain wrong.

    generally (with few exceptions – probably for crossover dogs who already have some behaviours NOT little pups) you DO need to do behaviours seperately cue them and then chain them (lured or freeshaping)

    bed exercise is not right either – either you have it on cue (and dont need to click OR treat) or you dont and you need to click AND treat).

    its simple – you click ONCE if you click WHENEVER you click you must TREAT while teaching new behaviours EVEN if you bu**er it up and click in the wrong place like i sometimes do.

    my advice – complain to your first trainer and tell her you want the money back for that class and also tell her the man is training incorrectly.

    Claire x

    #77591
    Chewy
    Member

    Thanks for getting back to me piglet. I really came out of there feeling frustrated but dont have the know how to argue, and wondered if they just did it differently in more advanced classes so you cleared that up for me. Cheers.
    I think I’ll search elsewhere for a follow on class or otherwise, disapointed since the origional lady has got another job now and I’m not sure how much input Attila does or has with the other classes since I think he travels a lot.

    Seeing a freind who trains gun dogs next tues and someone said she had started doing some classes so think I’ll see what she’s doing.

    Have a cuppa nd some Hobnobs!

    #77592
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    what the trainer was sort of doing is twofers and threefers etc…series before chaining…far far too soon

    and yes the click is for the behaviour…he double marking…..no need

    as an example

    dog has to mark
    dog is sent out
    dog then has to pick up
    dog then has to retrieve

    all have individual behaviours and the pick up and retrieve arel series in themselves

    but each needs to be cued…so the retrieve say is a mix of behaviours a series….izzie can tell you how many  😀 but we put it on one word dont we? we say..fetch and all of series in the retrieve will happen with a dog that can this is a chain…a link up of all the behaviours is the series

    this can be extended to other cued chains

    hope your gun dog trainer isnt anti clicker  🙂

    helen phillips’ book clicker training gundogs is a brill read…

    if it helps will email you my clicker jargon dict.

    #77593
    Izzie
    Member

    16 behaviours in a retrieve 😛 and I doubt I can name them all :-[ ;D

    #77594
    *Lassie*
    Member

    [quote author=Izzie link=topic=12228.msg236415#msg236415 date=1218787577]
    16 behaviours in a retrieve 😛 and I doubt I can name them all :-[ ;D
    [/quote]

    I did ask you what they all were ages ago 😉

    #77595
    Izzie
    Member

    [quote author=*Lassie* link=topic=12228.msg236418#msg236418 date=1218793057]
    [quote author=Izzie link=topic=12228.msg236415#msg236415 date=1218787577]
    16 behaviours in a retrieve 😛 and I doubt I can name them all :-[ ;D
    [/quote]

    I did ask you what they all were ages ago 😉
    [/quote]

    You did didnt you!!  :-[

    Will try to list them later for you ;).

    #77596
    Prem2Pram
    Member

    The more I read the training threads the more I realise just how little I know  :-[

    #77597
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    and i was about to post them  😀
    i await with bated breath  ;D

    #77598
    Izzie
    Member

    [quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=12228.msg236426#msg236426 date=1218795119]
    and i was about to post them  😀
    i await with bated breath  ;D
    [/quote]

    😛 😛 😛 You know its going to be wrong….

    #77599
    Izzie
    Member

    Have 14 so far, how far out am I?

    1. Sit
    2. Wait
    3. Watch
    4. wait
    5. Mark
    6. Wait
    7. Send away
    8. Pick up dummy
    9. Hold dummy
    10. Recall
    11. Hold dummy
    12. Sit
    13. Wait
    14. Dead

    #77600
    Sweetypye
    Member

    Is wait a behaviour?

    Is it not just a long duration of a sit?

    semantics but I would not use the term sendaway, but run out
    open mouth
    take
    close mouth

    what about turning before coming back once the item is in mouth

    present or hand touch

    open choppers
    return to heel position

    #77601
    *Lassie*
    Member

    [quote author=Sweetypye link=topic=12228.msg236432#msg236432 date=1218799924]
    Is wait a behaviour?

    Is it not just a long duration of a sit?

    semantics but I would not use the term sendaway, but run out
    open mouth
    take
    close mouth

    what about turning before coming back once the item is in mouth

    present or hand touch

    open choppers
    return to heel position
    [/quote]

    Now that’s the type of English I understand ;D
    Both mine do good retrieves, never realised how many behaviours were involved 😮

    #77602
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    ;D

    this is mine:

    Formal retrieve

    1) start position
    2) dog marks
    3) send away -straight/left/right etc
    4) locate
    5) body position for the fluent…
    6) pick up with no mouthing
    7) hold
    8) body position for secure…
    9) carry
    10) turn
    11) body position for the…
    12) delivery run in
    13) sit
    14) present
    15) dead
    16) end position

    haha obv the shortcut for the cool smiley is 8  ) 8)

    #77603
    Chewy
    Member

    I think my brain just blew up!!!!! 😀

    My freind didnt use the clicker when I worked with her (nurses) but she is posative about them, dont know if she uses them now. I have seen her dogs tho and what she’s done with them is excellant and has won various trials with them. I also know she doesnt beat them up to get what she wants from them (she knows my bil, we’ve moaned about him).
    I’d like to go and watch some clicker classes just to see how people link it all up and put it together.

    Why dont one of you lot live near me? Its just inconvenient I tell ya!

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