Pedigree dogs exposed 19th August BBC1

[*jody*]

I still think dog ownership tests are a way to go in educating people 🙂

[*Nick*]

This is a good thread and i hope it keeps going for awhile.

Obviously I did not watch the show but the title alone says that it was going to be seriously biased.

I know nothing about the KC but I do know some things about the CKC and the AKC and in my opinion not only are they powerless but they have completely lost focus on why they were started in the first place.

In my opinion the future of pedigree dogs does not lie in blanket organisations like the Kennel Clubs but in dedicated and powerful breed clubs. Examples like the Deutsche Langhaar Club or the Deutsche Drahthaar Club. Strict control over breeding, health, ownership potential and suitability and all issues pertaining to their chosen breed.

Needless to say this is a lot easier with small relatively rare breeds. I’m not sure how anyone could get the labrador or Staffy breeds in line.

It’s time to fight back though.  Get control over what we love and screw the shameless and sensationalising self promoters who only care about dogs if it suits their popularity potential or their pocketbook.

[*Lassie*]

I notice the good breeders that do health checks and try to do their best for the breed hardly got a mention. OH was shocked that pups are put to sleep if they are wrong colour, tried to explain that it’s not always as cut and dried as that, sometimes the pups can be deaf or have other health problems so they are not always put down because of colour and that not all breeders would follow that path.
The woman who won the  Cavalier Champ show was really made the villian of the piece, she didn’t deny or confirm if her dog had the brain problem but it sounds like the dog has and she doesn’t care :-\

[Mudgie]

No matter what is put in place there is always going to be a “market” for the greedy or uneducated.

It is quite remarkable that some people are outraged by this sort of stuff when we all know it happens – it has reared its head on this board on a few occasions – dogs rehomed because they dont make the grade – because they arent good enough to breed from – surely if you are a dog lover then there isnt conditions on the love or should it be perfect  >:(  and what is perfect  :-\

I totally agree 100% that dogs that have proven health issues should not be bred from – it is greed nothing more nothing less – yes the public should be better educated but unfortunately for a lot of breeders, good or otherwise, this is about money – the decent ones that care about the breed and its standard will never get a mention in these sort of problems.  Sometimes I feel that the KC get a raw deal – it is really easy to be negative about anything. 

They only ones who suffer from bad breeding and ignorant greedy breeders are the poor dogs.

[wags]

ok i keep coming back to this thread

i only sort of watched the programe because in all honesty i didnt feel like it was anything that new.

as the owner of a dog from “show” stock that clearlly isnt good enough and quite far from breed standard
– both his parents are health tested for everything
– both his parents have produced quality litters before
his breeder could i supose quite easily have culled him off and got a perfect litter – without jaw boy and who would have been any wiser ?
we have all signed contracts to the breeder saying that should anything happen then he is to be returned to them – non of them are KC registered because of the implications of breeding from these dogs
his jaw causes him no pain – it causes minor inconvinience i,e, when playing ball or frisbee etc he quite often bites his tounge, he often fumbles the ball at flyball, he often catches your fingers when giving treats, needs a certain shape bowl and im sure there are others if i thought about them – BUT he has no diffrence to compaire it to – he doesnt know what a normal jaw feels like as it showed itself at 3 week old
as for the height thing – he stopped growing at 5 months old – if you look at the pictures of him at 15 weeks he looks like hes going to be a big dog – everything is in proportion (appart from the top jaw) – good  tail, back, nice shaped head etc exept the length of leg which is way to short – so he looks totally out of proportion as everything else looks big
really i supose hes quite lucky – he wasnt leaving his breeders house until the right home came along – the breeder didnt want to advertise him because she knew what she wanted in a home for him and she knew that if she waited it would soon pop up – he went out in the van did all sorts of things with the other dogs and puppys he wasnt left out and hidden in a corner and odviouslly he wasnt culled – but i can see the reasons for someone doing that to a pup like him

– i didnt do any research – and yes i took him totally on impulse – i didnt feel sorry for him or anything – i dont regret it hes a cracking dog – a total hard nut but a cracking dog all the same

[quote author=Mudgie link=topic=12209.msg237201#msg237201 date=1219184302]
dogs rehomed because they dont make the grade – because they arent good enough to breed from – surely if you are a dog lover then there isnt conditions on the love or should it be perfect  >:(  and what is perfect  :-\

[/quote]

hes a fine example of what is not perfect – he has an over bite of roughly an inch and a half – but to me he is perfect – hes a perfect family dog and a cracking pet which is what is important to me – awful show dog though – and that doesnt matter to me

i have to say (and ive said it before) getting a dog is far to simple – i live on a council estate and im forever seeing bitches with teats almost dragging on the floor – and yes they are mainlly staffys, rotties, dobes, mastifs – and these dogs stay in this area and they get bred from again and again and again – yes ok they arnt really the ones the programe was targeting but surelly if they couldnt sell the puppies then they wouldnt mass produce them ?

i actually have a lot more to say on this but its getting very late

[Anonymous]

[quote author=minpin link=topic=12209.msg237169#msg237169 date=1219180465]

As for the programme it was very biased indeed, I was suprised to see Beverly Cuddy on the show as she hadn’t mentioned in her post that she would be appearing.

[/quote]

I wasn’t. I knew at the weekend she was going to be on it because she was involved in the making of it along with Emma Milne. (check the subtle hint in my post on page one) I’m surprised she didn’t tell the viewers to visit her blog – talk about missing an opportunuty. ROFLOL  ;D

[kizkiznobite]

that sadly happens though waggi genes kick in from way back…and his breeder did her best by him and there are many breeders that do but the situation in the cavi world is clearly dire…the woman with the dog that won best in breed has put him to stud 26 times since he was diagnosed with syringomyelia….the breed club knew he had been diagnosed…the health secretary of the club made that clear…yet he got best in show…

[Jenny s]

i was horrified that the cavvie lady continued to put him at stud knowing full well he had syringomyelia and that the breed club allowed this to happen when they had seen his xrays, there are now potentially loads of puppys/dogs that could have it causing more pain and suffering that should not have happened.
i dont understand all about the kc and breed clubs but surely there is some thing that can be done but not sure what.

[Anonymous]

As much as i agree that the horrific conditions shown need to be highlighted i do not think comapring breeding pedigree dogs to Nazi-ism was the best way to put the point accross, that was pure sensationalism.

I think the program left some pretty gaping holes in the real issues by only taking a swipe at pedigree breeders while completely ignoring the hundreds of thousands of back yard breeders who are a lot more responsible for a lot of these hireditery illnesses.

They made it sound like these sort of things have only been going on since the KC became involved in applying breed standards to the breeds that were highlighted & i think the fact the program makers banned the KC from seeing it before it was aired just about says it all really.

What were they afraid of?

[kizkiznobite]

http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/club/Ethform.html

the code of ethics for the cavvie club….

the woman should be excluded from the club in MHO

i agree mark … it was a very biased report and only focused on poor examples the breeds shown and pushed the view that all pedigree animals are unhealthy but then it was investigative journalism…. i found the condeming and comparing of the aryan purity section actually very disturbing…especially the clip with the new born half jewish baby…it was not required and was pure sensationalism…..i also found it ironic that this argurment was used – urging the KC to ensure that all dogs are ‘untainted’ before being bred from is merely the otherside of the same coin when it comes to selected breeding

[kizkiznobite]

the papers are at it  ::)

the say the bbc is going to meet with the KC and that the queen is considering removing herself as patron ……she must have phoned the tabloids to announce that then  ::) ::)

[Bevers2406]

It was a very strong documentary, I’d love to take credit for making this thought provoking film –  but I was just an interviewee. They’re a proper documentary making team – they’ve made loads of other excellent shows.

They did kind of mirror many of the points I’d been making for the last 20 years or so, just with the weight of all the most eminent scientists and a really big audience. But they did all their own digging – it just happened to lead to much the same place – the place all those scientists hang out. No conspiracy, there’s just no other conclusion you can reach. Pedigrees dogs are heading for trouble without intervention.

Many people were interviewed in the two years that this show took to make. Incidentally Emma’s involvement was minimal. I think the ‘thank you’ at the end was because her comment was cut from the film but the scene of the Bulldog Caesar at the beginning was shot at her surgery so she needed an acknowledgment.

There’s a lot to take in and I think we need the KC to take the criticisms on the chin and react and the signs are good that that is happening. This low point means hopefully things can only get better.

There’s a road out of here if the KC is brave enough to take it, but they need to start really governing rather than reacting – to give people the framework where the good, caring breeders can rise to the top and be justly rewarded. You’ve mentioned here that the Accredited Breeder Scheme just isn’t selective enough, that they’ve set the bar far too low. They need to listen – the good people want it tougher – who cares what the luddites say who don’t believe in testing?

They need to not fear breeder resentment at strong action, there’s a simple three point plan that they need to follow. The need to start fearing the consequences of little or no action.

1 Stop inbreeding 2 Make health testing mandatory 3 Re-write the standards in a radical way and police the judges so we don’t have dogs with unhealthy exaggerations winning!

And you’re right Mark – I was really let down they didn’t let me wear my ‘read my blog’ t-shirt on the show….! But if you’d like to read my blog I expand more on the above….

just one more time it’s….

http://coldwetnose.blogspot.com/

Incidentally, no one who was featured in the programme was allowed to see the documentary before it aired – and we all asked! I wasn’t even allowed to go to the press screening as I was a contributor – I was allowed to send a reporter. But the rule was fairly applied to all.

[Anonymous]

As much as i can and do take in the points you put accross Bevers, i think we need to keep in mind that this is not just a KC isuue & anyone who thinks otherwise is missing the point.

We all know there are things going on in the dog world outside the juristiction of the KC that are a million times worse & much more responsible for the problems shown last night – yet that quite conveniently gets swept under the carpet in favour of pushing the concept that pedigree breeders & the KC are solely responsible for the state pedigree dogs are in today.

As informative as the show was it was heavily biased against one type of breeder while completely neglecting to lay the blame at the doorstep if a much deeper issue.

[Bevers2406]

If you get the government right then the other problems should be easier to tackle too – if the public knows to trust the more regulated breeder then the puppy farms breeder won’t be able to shift their stock and they’ll move on to sell something else dodgy with a better profit margin. Differentiate the good from the bad much more clearly and spend some of those KC millions on a ad campaign that tells the public what they’ve done and why you need to buy direct from an Accredited Breeder – but for goodness sake get them to enforce the minimum standards because they’ve already cocked that great idea up.

More regulation if it’s done cleverly should elevate even the passive breeders’ standards and drive out of business the ones that simply can’t be bothered to evolve. It’s obviously an overly simplistic answer to a complex issue – but just because there are more problems in the world than the one staring us in the face there’s no reason not to start solving the obvious ones!

Look at Sweden. No pups in pets shops there and a very, very strong KC.  I know they’re Swedes, we’re not – I’ve heard all the reasons why we should do nothing before.

Why go elsewhere if the Kc is  a one stop shop doing a brilliant job – my plan would be a two tier system so they don’t lose the genes of the monkeys who won’t test, but that the public can see from the forms where these breeders are  lacking. Shame them into testing and reacting to the results, And I say charge more to those who don’t test – make it economic to do the tests. And make it so you can’t compete fro CCs in future unless you test… I could go on and on at how you discourage inbreeding to – but I have to go to work!

We have to give it a try! I’m not averse to a bit of Ikea – perhaps we can have a little look at Sweden and try and improve on what they do too?

[Prem2Pram]

I’m all health testing, however I just hope the Kennel Club doesn’t make any knee jerk reactions that we will all live to regret.

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