Positive punishment

[*Nick*]

all I can say is…women! can’t live with ’em, can’t kill ’em  :whatever:

And if anyone gets offended by that joke …tough! Grow a spine and move on.

and Lassie, don’t you dare go anywhere! If everyone left after being ‘called out’ by Claire…well, she’d be the only one left here.  :baby:

I believe Dree was trying to give an off-the-wall example , descvription of positive punishment. I don’t believe for 1 second that she was advocating what she did, but facts are facts…the desired result was attained.  So, the question is . positive punishment or not?

I’ll have a kronenbourg and some pretzels please mark. Cheers!  :ok:

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Dree – human – dog communication is nothing like dog – dog communication you cannot draw parallels with your behaviour in an attempt to justify it because they are just not there.  Dogs use their own communication to teach humans cannot simply copy it because (for the most part) we dont have the subtleties and timing.  The very fact you think this is very telling about what kind of trainer you are.  Do you also reccommend owners pin their dogs because this is justified along much the same lines. 

Also you say hitting the dog was an “instinctive” reaction from that I read an automatic type relfex (not in control) yet you say you were in control – thus meaning it was a conscious decision.  You consciously decided to hit the dog because it bit you.  (and Lassie – yes I have already said i have been bitten badly and if i had behaved like this i could have been much more seriously injured – that is my point about people with this temprament working with dogs) 

and Lassie – your comment about hitting your baby “but on the nappy so that it didnt hurt” is priceless!!  Presumably if it didnt hurt then its neither positive or negative – and again a very conscious decision to be violent not a ‘reflex type reaction’.  Also, obviously I did find your post insulting and rude – wouldnt do to be all the same now would it?

Claire.

[Anonymous]

Lassie – you asked what i felt was rude and insulting – its in red 🙂

sometimes dogs react better to an honest, and instantaneous, action.  Just as an alpha in the pack would have turned on him and shown just how out of order he was, my action was much the same.

It was a reactive to his action not your normal training methods, like Kiz said it would be near impossible to time this type of shock the only time it works is when it is instantaneous and without thought which is way it’s no good as a training method.

Quote from: piglet on October 02, 2008, 10:13:36 AM
Hi,

OK – this is very interesting –

The situation does not parallel ‘real life’ in *ANY* way !!

i’m gonna do a bev on you and throw it out because i know why not but …. do you ?

and can you think of any more common examples where people incorrectly cite this ?

Claire.

Who is this aimed at Claire?

here you do not make any change of ‘subject’ and are using *you* (ie: me)

okay let me clarify this – just in case I am wrong – Are you saying that hitting a dog on the head with a bowl is not a bad thing

She didn’t say it was good but it’s not the worst thing that could of happened.
If you think Dree should be hung for a reaction that if people are honest they may have done the same thing in her place then  you will be throwing stones at me too.

example below has some similarities in that you both consciously hit other living things but you also had the conscious thought “not to hurt” – i think this does make it different because Dree clearly intended to hurt from her reasoning and justification of the act.

When my son was a newborn he had colic, it was bad – he would scream from 8.00pm in the evening till 5.00 in the morning, this was every night for 4 months. My OH went to bed at 10.00 and left me to it, one night I snapped and smacked him on the nappy. It was a terry nappy and I didn’t smack him hard enough to hurt but in your world he would have been put into care.
There are degrees of black and white, people aren’t perfect we all have failings, there is a lot of difference to a tap on the head with a dog bowl when you have a dog hanging off your leg and a electric shock collar. Sad
I am a bad owner, I have shouted at Tam when he has been gobby and won’t shut up. I have cut Willow’s dew claw too low and made it bleed.
Yes, and once when Tam was young and overexcited he nipped the inside of my leg and wouldn’t let go, it was badly bruised and bled. How did I get him to let go? the only way I could at the time smacked him on the nose.
If you want me to leave the board, fine, set up a poll and vote.

IMO the purple is just a complete over-reaction – just the same sort of rubbish you criticise me for.

The red is insulting Lassie – you do not know me how dare you make a judgement about me that I would take a child away from its mother whatever the circumstances are.  Once I am fully qualified if I still maintain the same interests yes I will be able to work with appropriate services to protect children and this may include taking them away from their family/mother.  Its just nasty theres absolutely no excuse for it.

Nick – it is interesting that you try and come to Lassie’s aid with further insults towards me. 

Doesnt it show what a nasty intolerant world we live in !!!! :nono:

Claire.

[Mudgie]

Chill pills all round  :-*

Look I dont come on here to upset or hurt anyone – but I am not going to tip toe around this sort of stuff either – I dont agree with negative training – positive punishment – call it what you like. 

I dont judge anyone because I have made a lot of mistakes but I dont come on here saying that positive punishment is good, okay or sometimes acceptable because in my opinion it is wrong – end of – I am done with this thread it has got completely out of hand – and I have reined myself in a lot  :surprise:

[Dree]

[quote author=Mudgie link=topic=12543.msg243573#msg243573 date=1223027077]
Chill pills all round  :-*

Look I dont come on here to upset or hurt anyone – but I am not going to tip toe around this sort of stuff either – I dont agree with negative training – positive punishment – call it what you like. 

I dont judge anyone because I have made a lot of mistakes but I dont come on here saying that positive punishment is good, okay or sometimes acceptable because in my opinion it is wrong – end of – I am done with this thread it has got completely out of hand – and I have reined myself in a lot  :surprise:
[/quote]

I never, ever said that positive punishment is good.  This is yet another example of someone judging what I did, and not reading what I actually said!!  ::)  I put on an example for discussion, and have been crucified for it.  I agree that it has all got out of hand.  A few people understand where I’m coming from re: a discussion point.  Others, like yourself, are so into what is right and wrong in your opinion that you can’t even discuss the issue properly without hurling insults left, right and centre.

Claire….will reply to your posts later as I’m not long in, and have to go out again.

[Dree]

[quote author=piglet link=topic=12543.msg243568#msg243568 date=1223025591]
Its just nasty theres absolutely no excuse for it.

[/quote]

Before I dash!!  Can I ask what is nasty, because I may be mis-reading this?

[Izzie]

Topic locked til further notice.

[Author]

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