Really like this quote – dominance

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  • #62217
    *Nick*
    Member

    Don’t know where it came from or if someone wrote it but I find this very interesting.

    quote :

    a pack member’s sense of well-being doesn’t hinge on place within the pack but certainty of that place.)

    I read that and a great many things all of a sudden made sense to me.

    thoughts?

    #69598
    GSPmad
    Member

    yep.

    did you want any elaboration?  ;D consistency and security are the key to happiness – which i am no good at – same for the dog.  🙂 not everyone can be boss, but if everyone has their place and understands it and is appreciated within it then they are happy. IMO.

    though the word dominance always makes me shudder….  :vomit:

    #69599

    you know what but i think that phrase can fit into any of our lives in many aspects, i think its great  :yes:

    #69600
    *Nick*
    Member

    I read this as an “anti-dominance theory ” quote.

    #69601
    GSPmad
    Member

    don’t care if it’s pro- or anti-, i just hate the word now.  ;D along with terms like “spin doctor” and “credit crunch”.

    well i do care if it’s pro- or anti-, but you know what i mean.  ;D

    #69602
    *Lassie*
    Member

    [quote author=*Nick* link=topic=12580.msg243079#msg243079 date=1222717780]
    Don’t know where it came from or if someone wrote it but I find this very interesting.

    quote :

    a pack member’s sense of well-being doesn’t hinge on place within the pack but certainty of that place.)

    I read that and a great many things all of a sudden made sense to me.

    thoughts?
    [/quote]

    It makes a lot of sense – for humans as well as dogs

    #69603
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    i dont like the term because it is not measurable but…

    re the quote…interesting certainly…but it seems…and correct me if i am wrong nick ..it seems rather emotive from a human point of view…it doesnt seem to allow for any emotive biological state…i guess what i am saying is ..it not measurable …for example…. when a wolf pack or a wild dog pack or a feral dog pack etc is raising a litter of pups… all of the pack members experience a rise in their reproductive hormone output…so even if as per norm the ‘boss’ pair are reproducing…all the canines in the pack respond by kicking in emotive maternal /paternal type responses…the pheromones effect this ‘calming’ …so what i am saying is yep..i agree with the statement but i don’t think it about conditioned ‘dominance’ behaviour per se..if you with me…i in a waffling on mode tonight… ::) sorry  ;D

    #69604
    *Nick*
    Member

    I’m going to read that a couple more times first bev  :yes:

    ok, first i only used the ‘D” word  😉 in the title of this thread because I knew that would get people to read it  :whistle:  …hehehe sneeky aren’t I  :canadian:

    I found this quote in the middle of a discussion where a bunch of people kept telling someone who was having trouble being pack leader that he “had to exert dominance, show the dog who’s boss” etc etc and all that crap….

    The way I see it,  I feed the dog, therefore by default, I’m tjhe frickin’ boss. However, a dog will test the ‘boss’ every single day if he/she is inconsistent , not necessarily to take over the top position but just to see what the “boss’ is allowing today.

    Yes, Bev the quote does contain human emotive responses…but that’s all we have really isn’t it? We can’t speak ‘dog’ (although some sure get pretty close) so we can only describe or understand things in human terms.

    #69605
    GSPmad
    Member

    [quote author=*Nick* link=topic=12580.msg243105#msg243105 date=1222720359]
    The way I see it,  I feed the dog, therefore by default, I’m tjhe frickin’ boss. [/quote]

    Ah… I don’t see it like that.  😉 I see it as a complete profile of our actions behaviours and character with regard to the dogs.  ;D Does that make any sense at all?  😀

    #69606
    *Nick*
    Member

    [quote author=GSPmad link=topic=12580.msg243114#msg243114 date=1222721025]
    [quote author=*Nick* link=topic=12580.msg243105#msg243105 date=1222720359]
    The way I see it,  I feed the dog, therefore by default, I’m tjhe frickin’ boss. [/quote]

    Ah… I don’t see it like that.  😉 I see it as a complete profile of our actions behaviours and character with regard to the dogs.  ;D Does that make any sense at all?  😀
    [/quote]

    Yup, that makes sense Terry but I see the things you’ve added as “maintaining” leadership….bringin’ home the bacon secured the job in the first place  🙂

    #69607
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    i just did a long reply…it gone  ::)

    #69608
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    anthropomorphism does not rule..there is always choice for emotive response without it …

    we all use it..i do certainly..but i know i am and it often in the hope it causes amusment…like when i post as if dogs typing..like in the recent misty post and cubert…but underneath there is what there is … so for example…she of an age where she getting female hormones..he of an age where he now thinks he knows what to do with it..am sure you with me to here nick  ;D i could be just straight up (no pun intended) and biological..but i use anthropomorphism to get the same message across in a light manner…

    for me…for this debate to continue then i think that ideas around dominance need exporing and questioning..and then maybe folk will see why i say it not measurable terminology…

    interesting re the the take on the i feed therefore i am  😉

    #69609
    GSPmad
    Member

    [quote author=*Nick* link=topic=12580.msg243121#msg243121 date=1222721291]
    [quote author=GSPmad link=topic=12580.msg243114#msg243114 date=1222721025]
    [quote author=*Nick* link=topic=12580.msg243105#msg243105 date=1222720359]
    The way I see it,  I feed the dog, therefore by default, I’m tjhe frickin’ boss. [/quote]

    Ah… I don’t see it like that.  😉 I see it as a complete profile of our actions behaviours and character with regard to the dogs.  ;D Does that make any sense at all?  😀
    [/quote]

    Yup, that makes sense Terry but I see the things you’ve added as “maintaining” leadership….bringin’ home the bacon secured the job in the first place  🙂
    [/quote]

    I see your point (figuratively speaking  ;D ) – but if you behave in ways that are inconsistent with that then bringin’ home the bacon aint enough.  🙂 And your dog will go and find bacon for itself.  ::) And find that it’s fun….

    What I am trying to say is – food is but a part of being a leader – trust respect and consistency all come into that (and like I said I am rubbish at it, with both humans and dogs…). After all – consider gundogs – retrieve fallen game – so in a sense they are bringing the food – but it doesn’t automatically elevate them as their behaviours have been cued by the human so they are working with and for the human – same with assistance dogs… am I making sense? I am really not sure if I’m making sense tonight at all.  :-\

    #69610
    wags
    Member

    [quote author=kizkiznobite link=topic=12580.msg243125#msg243125 date=1222721475]
    i just did a long reply…it gone  ::)
    [/quote]

    its the night for it

    you aint going to get a sensible answer from me

    Bev bought me a pint some vodka and a touch of coke earlier and i havent stopped since  😉

    #69611
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    yeah right…and i was all that time at the bar waiting so i had to pass the time so….

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