Still struggling with my boys tummies :-(

[Anonymous]

Hi,

It is worth being aware that the “animal health trust” also have their own little agenda and will be biased in their views so be objective 🙂

As Suz says – this is a symptom, not an illness.  Lassies idea about tests for illness with similar symptoms is a real good idea and then ….

I thought I would throw this one in for others to comment on also – is it possible that the dogs gut is now completely stripped and that no conventional diet will bring it back again ?  What about doing a pure exclusion diet – Suz, you probably know most about the practicalities of this.

What about considering a 24hr starve and then pre/probiotics and a very simple 1 food diet – something which could keep the dog ticking over but that isnt likely to be an allergen or have additives in?

Mrs L – how long did you “do” chappie for, it took my girl 4-6mths to get solid from colitis (which i did on burns fish + rice as i fed commercial dried food at the time).  Even then if she picked a scrap from the floor that would be “it” for a few days again for quite a while after that – even now she doesnt tolerate treats that well.  Were you giving your dogs treats aswell ?

Claire x

[Bevers2406]

Sorry if Lassie thought i was advocating not talking to your vet, a good alternative vet would be my very first port of call. One who didn’t try to sell you a commercial prescription diet, and one who would help you make your own to suit your dogs should you prefer.

The nutrition element taught at vet school is usually sponsored by a pet food company, so it can take a vet a few years to question what she/he has been told and come up with their own theories.

Finding a vet you can trust is half the battle.

I’d never have risked the liver diet with a brilliant vet telling me to try it.

Regards
Beverley

[Justine&Rafe]

All I’d say is to echo Claire’s comments re the pre and probiotics.  Probiotic (as it’s now labelled!) natural yoghurt is good, but to re-populate the gut from long term tummy troubles, you’ll need more good bacteria than the probiotic yogs can give without OD’ing your dogs on dairy!  Don’t go for the actimel things as they too high in sugar.  Get some probiotic tablets off t’interweb (the ones I personally – and Rafe – use are called PB8 – they seem to do the trick).  And you can get pre-biotic powder from the net or health food stores.

Pre-biotic is usually FOS – fructo-oligo-saccharides

And probiotics are a mix of “good” bacteria strains – go for as high a guaranteed bacterial count per tab as you can find.  You’ll want to be giving the tablets 2 x per day.

Sounds a nightmare, but I’ve had cause to use probiotics, and all I can say is that they helped me IMMENSELY.  Kinda thought it was a bit of commercial psychobabble before I used them…. Sceptical me!

No matter which diet you choose, if your dogs’ tums have been so bad for so long, they could really really do with probiotics.  The gut is the no.1 site where your body has to protect you from pathogens, and beneficial bacteria are the no. 1 defence against pathogenic ones.  If we had no good bacteria our immune systems would simply not be able to defend along such a large “front”.  And having the squits kinda cleanses ALL out of there, good and bad, and you can guess which take the opportunity to repopulate the cleared out areas quickest!

Good luck xx

[Justine&Rafe]

Defo agree with Bev re the vets being sponsored by commercial food suppliers … Can anyone say “Royal Canin”!!

[Diesel73]

[quote author=Justine&Rafe link=topic=13595.msg259502#msg259502 date=1233599965]
Defo agree with Bev re the vets being sponsored by commercial food suppliers … Can anyone say “Royal Canin”!!
[/quote]
True but….

[quote author=*Lassie* link=topic=13595.msg259369#msg259369 date=1233524794]
[quote author=Diesel73 link=topic=13595.msg259345#msg259345 date=1233518053]

quote :

in my experience Chappie-wise …

You mean Chappie, the tin can food?
[/quote]

Yes Diesel :yes:
And then at a separate meal raw lambs liver  NZ) and organic carrot juice. It used to make me feel a bit queazy –  but she loved it!

I would not give a dog with the s**** raw liver but I would give raw liver if the dog was constipated
[/quote]
….. like i said, the quote befor i agree with but chappie tin can food? Would feed that to my dog unless i would WANT him to have a splash-butt or race-arse. Cause thàts what the stuff does. Must be the crap-ingredients they put in it. Takes the shit out of you when you see how they make that stuff :suspious:  ……….  funny  ;D .
As for raw liver, regardless of whàt is does; lots of dogs don’t want to eat it raw.

[*Lassie*]

[quote author=Bevers2406 link=topic=13595.msg259500#msg259500 date=1233599711]
Sorry if Lassie thought i was advocating not talking to your vet, a good alternative vet would be my very first port of call. One who didn’t try to sell you a commercial prescription diet, and one who would help you make your own to suit your dogs should you prefer.

Regards
Beverley
[/quote]

There was no mention of talking to a vet in either of your posts.

[quote author=piglet link=topic=13595.msg259492#msg259492 date=1233598318]
Hi,

It is worth being aware that the “animal health trust” also have their own little agenda and will be biased in their views so be objective 🙂

Claire x
[/quote]

Their agenda is to help animals other vets have not been able to help, they are the cutting edge of small animal medicine. Two friends of mine have had their dogs treated there and spoke very highly of the staff there

I did ask in an earlier post if all treats had been stopped.

[SuzAndTheDiva]

What works for one dog doesnt work for another and as a raw liver diet is not only highly lacking in many things but also too much liver can have just the effect were trying to stop I suggest we leave that for now.

As I said colitis is a symptom NOT a cause, something vets seem to forget – have you had a faecal sample tested think i would now if you havent already. An exclusion diet is hard but you have been trying that already so i suggest changing what your excluding – as its not working.

Pre/probiotics are good and do help so another avenue to look at.  🙂

And yes treats tidbits what do they get if any?

Diesel chappie can be really good for some dogs with bad tums – our collie however should not be fed the stuff as goes right through him!

[Anonymous]

quote :

Their agenda is to help animals other vets have not been able to help, they are the cutting edge of small animal medicine. Two friends of mine have had their dogs treated there and spoke very highly of the staff there

I dont doubt it, but the fact remains they are a group with an agenda and like all advice should be considered critically and objectively. 

Claire.

[Sweetypye]

Has your dog been tested for SIBO, EPI, Leaky Gut syndrome etc all of these are the triggers to coliitis; also have you tried an elimination diet at all, or something which is completely grain free?

A good source of prebiotics is a banana daily along with live yoghurt or probiotic capsules with at least two differing types of bacteria.

Also have you used slippery elm food/tree bark powder with your dog?  This soothes the gut and can be mixed into yoghurt or with water.

[Izzie]

Beardies can take an offal diet, Cavvies cant, so please dont do the offal diet as suggested.

[Mrs L]

hi

firstly, many many thanks for all your replies – I do appreciate it … my t’interweb is still playing up so I haven’t been able to get online again – arrgh!

ok – well, in the last few days I’ve got them on mash and fish – absolutely no other treats, and nobody else is feeding them. I was doing bio yoghurt but stopped after seeing the first replies and wanting to minimise the food groups they’re having.

One of them is fine, solid stools and back to normal, Ozzie is still loose – they don’t seem too volumous though, or slimy and no blood so I hope that means progess!! He isn’t going over frequently either.

With regards to chappie – I believe it was the original we fed, and only for a week or so at 1 spoon per meal to wean them onto it, but I took it away when I saw Ozzie was bad again – I don’t know if I’m being too knee jerk in my reactions, and should have stuck with it now?!

Ironically, I find the more advice I get the more confused I get!! I’m really not sure whether to ask for more tests, or see if we can improve it and then it will be ok, or whether that’s a head in the sand thing as people have said it’s a sympton, not a cause. The vet wanted to go down the allergy diet route, rather than tests for anything else. I’m going to buy some pre/pro biotics now (as long as t’interweb stays up!!) … can anyone let me know if Feelwells as a treat would be a help or a hinderance? they are probiotic treats, but I don’t know if the good would be outweighed by the addition of more food?

many thanks again to you all
Mrs L

[SuzAndTheDiva]

I dont know those treats so for now i say just leave it out the diet for a bit longer.

Its fab news that they are both improving -this points to an allergy doesnt it, but the vets could test and test and STILL not find exactly whats causing it – you can test food slowly on your own really for a lot less money  🙂 I would keep them both on this for a little longer then slowly start introducing other foods. I think i would still be tempted to get a stool sample tested JUST INCASE  :-*

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