the rituals of ‘greet’

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

lol deebee !!!

bonnie would have ate it !!!

[SuzAndTheDiva]

😀 nice one Mo  ;D

How many people do you meet who wont let dogs sniff bums – i hear it all the time ‘oh but thats rude’  😀

Bev explain to me more, cos am still confused a litte, like I say Honey lets some sniff her bum not others she just spins round doing the stiff legged thing like get the f*** off my bum  ::) but we met a snappy jack russell the other day…..Honey very naughty and ignored a dont you dare go over, owners said shes ok but a bit snappy, so Honey went over and sniffed her bum and got met with a dont you dare  ::) she let THAT dog sniff her bum and a few seconds later threw herself down on her side belly half up when she  ( honey) got to close the the jacks owners and the jack did all grumbly growly…….

Am going to  have to take more note of who she lets sniff her bum and who she doesnt – Christine does she let Fritz? I think not? dont think she let Izzies girls either……………? Mind she had a total strop on there rather unimpressed and being dumped in with so many dogs/people  ::)

[kizkiznobite]

ok suz…now…read what you have written slowly and see the behaviour/communication in your mind at the same time… as it happened in your head..then come back to me  🙂

[kizkiznobite]

i actually dont meet many i guess those that may say to others rarely do to me…i usually have whistles around neck and am clearly cueing ….my body language is also strong and i do tend to ask lots of questions about their dog/s as those that have been with me know…if i am busy i also just ignore folk and dogs are cued in…i guess i just look like a trainer  ;D…if someone did say to me oh thats rude blah blah…i would bounce back ‘they just having a conversation…’ but would call mine off with a ok no greeting that one and smile sweetly  :gum:

[SuzAndTheDiva]

Well i know why she threw herself down nearly belly up – the dog was standing over her head over her neck, was the onyl sensible option im guessing in that situation?

Maybe the same with the bum sniffing? The dog definately didnt want Honey sniffing HER bum but swung straight round and sniffed Honeys bum – and she let her?

[kizkiznobite]

but it wasnt the only option was it?…she could have just walked off…as ami would have done …she does not offer appeasment to unknown dogs….what honey recognised was that the dog was saying i am prepared to greet you but it on my terms …i am managing this situation and you can take it leave it or…….and when honey then went too far in the other dogs eyes she got told off and she accepted that and appeased telling the other dog that she wasnt threat…that good dog speak..it is that sort of communication sequence that avoids a fight…

she speaks good dog…. 🙂 she understands how to protect herself…

if you then extend this and say try to imagine it if it on her ground…say home etc…then you get extra ‘speak’ and different responses….and then extend it more so for example…you ask re fritz…but…fritz is now an extension of her pack…you groom fritz…you are saturated with his smell after a groom…it different to meeting a strange dog in neutral territory….think of how she is/was with the poodles….it is watching and analysing all this that makes a human more aware and with that comes the ability to apply it  🙂

[SuzAndTheDiva]

So she was being a good girl? Good thats what i like to hear, wonder how she got so good at all this? Just instinct maybe – cos no idea what her early background is? Though she mixed with hundreds of dogs while at the kennels with me every day – and at the salon………..

Yep remember what you said re the poodles……she has since told that dog off big time – think i told you? might of been while you were away, my fault wasnt watching and bang, she really told her – no rpoblems since though? As in no more stalking !!

She likes Fritz, she plays with him  :yes:

She is interesting to watch…….I should take more notice, id like you to see her someday…..otherday a lab type dog was trying to get her to play, by barking in her face and then when that didnt work biting her on the bum  ??? Honey just walked off..

[Izzie]

[quote author=SuzAndTheDiva link=topic=14021.msg265155#msg265155 date=1238705250]
Am going to  have to take more note of who she lets sniff her bum and who she doesnt – Christine does she let Fritz? I think not? dont think she let Izzies girls either……………? Mind she had a total strop on there rather unimpressed and being dumped in with so many dogs/people  ::)
[/quote]

She let Trixie and Jess sniff her, but not Livia

Livia got over excited and Honey told her off.

Wheres the rest of the pics from Sunday Suz, there were a few of Honey joining in with Fritz and Jess

[kizkiznobite]

ok so there you go…with the lab type she chose to walk…she wasnt prepared to appease that…it sounds as if she makes prior choice..she assesses and does the yep will go greet that but if a dog comes into her space she choses between yeah or bog off….yes you did tell me re poodles  🙂

she good…she has learnt this…this is the bit that max has missed and also it been added to with his medical problem…it starts with mum and siblings and goes on through the development stages…it is humans that tend to mess it up…in general dogs do it just fine on their own…lets face it…if they didnt they would fight more than they do…

[SuzAndTheDiva]

Ahh yes forgot she told Livia off  ::) mind was nicely done? Livia certainly listened! Yep Izzie she joined in a bit once at the park, i have a few photos of her with the gang at your house but that not her ‘joining in’ she just looks dumbstruck!  :embarrass:

Bev next time i take her to the park will take more notice and then come back and report  :ok:

Im guessing Honey is lucky, this human didnt mess it up because i didnt know any better – I just dumped her in with every dog imaginable at the kennels and left her too it……….used to ‘test’ other dogs with her too  :embarrass: the ones who had been difficult with other dogs, cos they rarely were with HOney and it gave them some fun time…….

Can definately see how max’s medical problems will have halted/impeded this process as well….

[deebee]

the dog in my example initially barked at max when he got too close, say 10 feet. we happened to see that dog (alfie) everyday for a week so i let them ‘greet’. max straight up the bum, alfie tyring to avoid it. we walked in parralell.
next time greet was less rushed (its like max has had to get the sniff in before hes pulled off) and he started with the head sniff.
next time alfie strained to get to max! and went straight for his bum. max tried to divert him to his face.  did a playbow of sorts with his legs in the air. he by now had seen alfie loads of times so i distracted him to watch me with drip feed of sausage and alfie had a sniff, max looked unsure but didnt stop wanting the treats and it lasted about 30 secs before i ‘released’ him.
next time, he was on a longer lead  practising the keep by saw alfie and max went towards him and i said leave (we were about 20 feet away) and he did, he wasnt fussed. he recognised alfie as a dog hed aready sniffed. a different dog meant he wanted to pull me over to it so i walked the other way. max didnt look back.

hope this is all readable and makes sense  :embarrass:

[tri 'n snatch it bonnie girl]

hi,

what i get from this is you are more exciting than grumbling and thats a real positive 😀

and also his cues good too 🙂  i think he loves his mummy lots 🙂

claire x

[kizkiznobite]

yeah it makes sense  🙂

the problem you got is that his total development is all so behind…the lack of socialising with his bad start in life and the medical stuff since and the learnt behaviours that have been influenced by his ‘odd’ smell….you also now got other stuff being added…for example…dogs that have met him before…even a quick glance and air sniff from across a field…will remember his smell and behaviour from before etc…his responses to those dogs is learnt behaviour for him but they see the old max but smell the new one…and he also having to catch up with all the other social interaction stuff and some of it is locked as i said in yesterdays post…not sure if i making sense now haha….

ok…lets imagine a cubert/max greet now

cubert would recognise him visually….would do oooohello mate….then would get up close and personal and do yikes… :what: is that really you or have i made a booboo…all this happens very fast …and what cubert would then do is alter the pre determined greet halfway through to ooookkkkkkkkkk…errrmmmm..hey yeah it is you…you got different aftershave on mate? i gotta sniff that …. but poor max would be what what what…he would want to do the greet/play from where they left off last time…so he has to alter his responses fast too …ok with me…

the change of smell is gradual and will still be happening…will take another few weeks….will bring cubes down and see if we can get a cue in place ….if you dont want sniff arses good sniff arse…then think of another cue   ;D

in the meantime…dont push it…let him set the pace of the greets…but help him by removing him from the situation if he shows anxiety because every time he does then it is being re-enforced….try moving him out doing some management cueing for a few seconds…this way heel close etc..then going back in for another try…be better if you didnt lure with treats…reward after the wanted behaviour not to get it or as a distraction in order to force it

[deebee]

well, thanks claire but i think its the food he loves lol, hes a labrador!

his cues are iffy, depends on if he has seen the dog before. alot of the time we cant greet (even if the other owner is willing) because he gets very strong and excited and the other dog picks up on it and either gets silly or worried. with alfie we moved gradually closer in parralell walk as he is older calmer dog. max got less silly as he got used to seeing alfie. he is also getting used to the fact that just because there is a dog nearby, we dont go rushing over.

[deebee]

i should clarify that we greeted after aflie didnt bark at him, on the next walk. next time, it was alfie pulling to see max.

yeah, i lured, it was spur of the moment and i saw he was not anxious but ‘this is a bit odd, but keep em coming’.

i have managed him going towards dogs which helps but not away then back, will try that thanks.

did cubert do that each time? didnt come to think of him as that one with the funny smell? must have been like groundhog day for the both of them

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