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  • #68278
    Mudgie
    Member

    So they do a response programme which educates us all better and we can then move on to an informed decision.

    However, lets not forget that the other stuff goes on, that should be addressed as well and not just with a statement but with practical ongoing rules and regulations being enforced – lets not sweep that stuff under the carpet by giving the good breeders the stage – the other negative stuff needs to be addressed

    #68279
    Prem2Pram
    Member

    Mudgie no one is suggesting that anything gets swept under the carpet, however what they are saying is if you’re going to show a coin so to speak show all sides, the good, the bad and the ugly.

    #68280
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Totally agree with this I am know for breeding late and using older stud of long living line and I never line breed, I have not done bad in the show ring  ::) have had my moments especially as I don’t boot lick  😉
    IMO I have always thought there should be two levels for registeration, level A if you health check level B if you haven’t, when I mentioned this to a high up in the KC I was shot down with ”It wouldn’t work” nobody told me why it would not work but my reasoning was more people would health check nobody would want to be second rate with the governing  body and they would still register with the KC.
    I think the backlash has started friend with a litter of puppies all health check has had four of her five buyers phone and cancel.
    Me I am not bothered if Mel has a litter I would not care if I kept them all but with bigger dogs there will be a price to pay
    Val 

    Behaviour guru Dr Ian Dunbar just came up with a blinding obvious suggestion thatt I think sounds a winner.

    .Only breed your dog to an unrelated stud dog who is more than 7 years old and healthy!

    As he says:

    “Longevity is simply the very best overall indicator of health, fit genes and good behavior and temperament.”

    #68281
    .dodger.
    Member

    yeah i like the idea of the two different levels of registeration 😉

    [quote author=Val link=topic=12233.msg237436#msg237436 date=1219341692]
    I think the backlash has started friend with a litter of puppies all health check has had four of her five buyers phone and cancel.
    [/quote]
    not good at all. :-\ They should definatly have made this a two part programme showing the bad aswell as the good side to health checked pedigree dogs.

    #68282
    Bevers2406
    Member

    The amazing Terrierman over in the states has blogged something extraordinary about the KC’s attempts at getting the TV programme discredited – it seems their 90% healthy statistic quoted in all the media certainly isn’t what it seemed…

    I’d like to point out that while I agree that by saying HD, eye probs and etc were not significant the KC spokesman has rather asked for trouble, I would never want any living thing to suffer – even the KC spokesman!

    http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/

    #68283
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    maybe maybe not… >:D

    and to explain that…i will not read or digest anything more that is using nazism..it can be quotes, film, snippets, biography links etc etc….i will not go there….some of us are still alive and/or of a generation where it has affected us….deeply in one way or another…..

    it makes me feel sick and angry and i will not expose my soul or my morals or my ethos to this..for me it takes away all credibility…and i wont aplogise for it either….there is no need, it is sensationalism at it’s worse and it is a shame that such depths are used…

    #68284
    Bevers2406
    Member

    Terrierman says many things that may offend but no references to Hitler in his blog I can assure you.

    #68285
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    i didnt say hitler…i said nazism

    #68286
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    and if a quote is to be used then at least let it be used in full…in it’s own context and 100% applicable

    ‘If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

    #68287
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    want some more of this hijack….quotes from the greatest, most dangerous spinner of all time….

    “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”

    well i guess that where we at then……

    “Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”

    yep and they sure did…

    “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”

    but we need the knowledge..in total..both sides of the coin….

      “Intellectual activity is a danger to the building of character”

    haha

    ‘The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”’

    indeed…mmm interesting…so no other side of coin then…

    #68288
    Bevers2406
    Member

    Sorry – I did History as a my degree but I was always getting my centuries mixed up…. It was such a long and lively post from Terrierman that the famous and much-used Joesph Goebbels’s quote early up about lies didn’t stick in my mind or offend – I expected the Sinn Fein references and the bit about the Black and Decker drill and the KC Secretary’s kneecaps to be much more likely to upset people!

    Plus also the concept of the KC thinking HD, cataracts etc aren’t that big a handicap for a dog – pretty shocking I feel.

    But in any case, regardless of the reference to lies becoming perceived as fact – the real point is – he’s pretty angry.

    #68289
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    then i would respectfully ask that the quote link be removed….as i am angry too….

    #68290
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’m very offended by anyone who quotes Nazis should be thought of as something that people should read because it sledges their ex emplpyer

    I have no relatives except a brother Why because the Nazis killed everyone else add this to that program linking selective dog breeding to being a Nazi-which makes me a Jewish Nazi yer right Ms Cuddy. So you think this person is amazing Ms Cuddy do you ? & you are supposed to be so self righteous & an all round goody two shoes who likes people who are into Nazi thinking-well I suppose it has revealed your true colours.

    You have never selective bred nor inbred of course all your Dearbolt litters were from outcrosses, or were they ?

    #68291
    Bevers2406
    Member

    Hello my good friend Dyane

    I definitely have no Nazi leanings, am all for free speech have no wish to offend anyone. The post referred to has merely a reference to lies becoming fact if they are oft repeated – which is often used by many people and in no ways implies the user of that metaphor has any leanings towards  the Nazi party.

    The BBC1 programme also had some links to the eugenics movement – which may be why terrierman chose to reference his quote trying to be clever – but we are definitely getting off message here.

    And Dyanne I bred 8 litters of Beardies in total many, many years ago. Most of them were indeed to fairly unrelated sires bizarrely – we did try to use interesting lines – Ch Charncroft Corinth, Ch Orora’s Frank etc but it was instinctual rather than science based. I hadn’t yet read the paper from Professor Balding’s research published this year that taught us all about effective population sizes. We were encouraged to breed our half brother and half sister Champions together by a KC member and senior judge –  but never did feel that was right. Glad we didn’t. I think we did try line breeding once or twice and looking back I now realise that was a mistake – but peer pressure tells you that is what you should do to – now we all know that is wrong.

    And yes, I used to work at the Kennel Club many years ago and when I was there I wrote a paper recommending a scheme that used mandatory health testing – about 25 years ago now I think. Should have a fair bit of dust on it by now. My message has been unwaivering in all that time. Tried my hardest to change them from within, tried to do it with reasoned debate too – had many a meeting with them over the years. Sadly, they haven’t reformed and now there’s this huge documentary and every one knows what they haven’t done. But making up statistics isn’t the way out of the problem. First you have to to admit there is a problem and then put it right.

    #68292
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I suggest you go behind the dogs behind your dogs Ms Cuddy, Beardies all come from a handful of days from the Bothkennar kennels & you say all your studs were unrelated to the dams Er How come that your first Champion bitch(the Edenborough)appears twice once on each side of the pedigree isn’t that inbreeding. I also note that Percy(Blue Bracken)also appears more than once in pedigrees. Of course Jeanie of Bothkennar & others will appear several times in your dogs, but because they are off the 5/6 generation pedigrees are invisible. Oh yes Ms Cuddy, you are as guilty as others for inbreeding your dogs

    BTW Yes I did inbreed my last litter & for a very good reason, to preserve the old lines & steer clear of Winston, whose temperament & type caused myself & many others much concern. the result was a litter of puppies that were true beardies complete with dark eyes, even the browns & the fawn had brown eyes & their coats all harsh & waterproof without a straight parting between them. I wouldn’t have a show bred beardie now if you paid me sadly as much as I love the breed they are no longer Beardies like many other breeds they are just show dogs

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