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Walking dogs together that are not that keen on eachother

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  • #71697
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Claire –  I do agree with you about dogs thinking in a more basic way – so using wimp is humanising him again, and you’re right he responds in a way that works for him – he is very non-confrontational in general. And thanks for your points about the boxer’s socialisation – we have no way of knowing – he was a stray – aged 7 – he was microchipped but the owners didn’t come to claim him – so he was taken in by battersea… guess will have to see?

    In terms of pulling them apart – I didn’t have to touch Loki at all actually – the other owner grabbed his dog and they both sprang apart luckily..  🙂

    Foxy – I think I’ll have to watch them tomorrow morning and see how it goes – do you think I can manage the situation?  ???  Am thinking all I can manage is Loki – and then the owner of the boxer has to do the rest… But they were sort of ok for the rest of the walk  :-\

    #71698
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Widget – foxy’s example is a really good one, you can see how she’s controlling the situation where 2 dogs arent friendly to each other – this is probably a situation where (if they were both her dogs) she could move on to re-inforcing the Lab (like i was saying about Wills/Misty) however, as they arent then this is the best solution to “manage” them

    This is what you could do with the Boxer if its owner bought into some proper training.  If they wont and you have to keep meeting them I would be very very careful and as soon as they allow behaviour you dont want – make your excuses and walk another way.

    That’s what I don’t want – to have to walk away  🙁  I’ve already had to avoid another park because of a different boxer that flattens Loki every time we meet (he ends up on his back with tail between legs) and owner is stupid – so I don’t walk there any more… I will be ruinning out of morning options  :'(

    #71699
    **Woofums**
    Member

    Claire…I don’t know you but sometimes you do spout some cr*p. (sorry If that offends, but you’ve offended my common sense)

    My Dogs & their pals tussle & play fight all the time….very noisily. They aren’t challenging the pack order at all they are playing.
    They are loud & energetic…but out of control ??? no way One word from my friends & I & it stops & they return to our sides. Doesn’t matter which of us tells them to stop…they do it.
    We have a “wimpy” Dog in the group, but he will still play & rough & tumble with the others.

    Now add a strange  Dog into the group & their will be lots of raised tails  stiffened body language. That is something different. The wimpy Dog will run to his owner, or hide behind the dominant bitch.
    Once everyone “knows their place” again they are fine.

    My Bitch is top of the pecking order & also the quietest of the group…but she has very clear body language.

    A Dog has to be secure within it’s own little pack (respect it’s owner) before it can be expected to be interact with strange people & Dogs.

    Personally I’d carry on  walking Loki with this new Dog…..as long as there is no physical danger to either Dog.

    #71700
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi,

    yep – loki isnt a wimp he’s managing the situation in the most effective way he has learned in order to prevent him or his resource (thats you) getting injured (i think).

    tomorrow – you can only manage Loki, not the boxer but you can influence the boxers behaviour by what you do with Loki 🙂

    rescues, especially strays bond fast and bond firm with new owners if this is partly resource aggression then keeping Lovely Loki away from his owner will help keep things friendly, dont forget Loki views you as a resource and probably ultimately trusts you to keep him out of the poop so dont “set him up” to fail by over-fussing the boxer either.  if things build, distract loki, use cues (and good treats) – remember your “best place to be” and if all else fails … suddenly remember something important you have to do and get out of there 🙂

    Claire x

    #71701
    Anonymous
    Guest

    woofums – dogs are not “wimpy” they have a pack order and they follow it until such time that they feel able to challenge for a higher place or they are demoted due to age or illness.  your dogs and their pals are “playing” to ascertain and re-inforce pack order. 

    plus – your advice is totally contradictory – were you aware ??

    you first say that dogs + owners need a bond before interacting with other dogs

    and then …

    tell widget to go right ahead and meet this other dog which is clearly not properly bonded with its owner

    Claire.

    p.s. incase you didnt realise – you are describing managed interactions and we are talking about unmanaged ones … so your points dont make much sense really.

    #71702

    It can certainly be controlled but i hazard a guess that the problem will not or never be you and Loki, but more the other dog and owner.  If they’re the type of owner who’s dog harasses every dog in the park while they’re insisting ‘they’re only playing!’  then the best thing would be to walk away in case it ends up affecting Loki in a negative way.

    In this pic is the GSD on the left with the lab next to him AND another entire male, Niko on the other side, and the main prize right beside them, Izzy.  3 entire males who could all care less about each other but love Izzy, all nicely controlled for a pic.
    [img width=468 height=312]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm4/HandsOnPaws/P1010594.jpg[/img]

    Oh and i found this pic as well, same GSD in question (poor thing, he’s really not popular with the boys!)
    From the back of Niko’s head you can tell what he’s thinking!  ::)
    [img width=468 height=312]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm4/HandsOnPaws/P1010533.jpg[/img]

    #71703
    *Lassie*
    Member

    Incidentally, if you ever meet a proper “top bitch” she’ll do everything in her power to avoid fights – probably seeming like a “wimp” but clever dogs dont want to risk injury in a fight

    That’s Willow :yes:
    Widget you said there were play bows and racing around to start with?
    Sounds like the boxer is just feeling his feet, it does take time for rescues to settle.
    A friend of mine had an cocker bitch that had never been with other dogs and she was 18 months old, she was a total pain in the a*** with Tam – growling and snapping. Tam defused the situation himself and they became friends.
    I would let them walk together but keep a close eye on them then if it starts to get heated distract them. You could get them to play your games, fastest sit/down , recalls etc. Get the other owner to join in, I have done this with Tam,Willow and Suki and they love it.

    #71704
    **Woofums**
    Member

    Personally I’d carry on  walking Loki with this new Dog…..as long as there is no physical danger to either Dog.

    I stick to my opinion & experiences & will make no further comment as I obviously know nothing & am a terrible owner.

    #71705
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hi,

    i may be wrong but i’d assumed the point of posting here was because widget was concerned about Loki.  i would have concerns about exposing my dogs to this dog who isnt under control or behaving appropriately.  if widget puts Loki in this position and the boxer pushes too much (as may have happened today) Loki may be likely to stand his ground which could result in an injury or suffer from stress.  the boxer has now been successful in getting rid of Loki once using this method so it would seem likely it is something the dog has learned to do (taking into account he’s stray and 7).

    just because a dog has a natural instinct and drive doesnt mean it is nessesarily right or responsible to allow it to do this behaviour with other dogs 🙂  …. i am sure it wouldnt be any comfort to some teeny yorkie owner if i allowed my lurcher to hunt and capture their dog “because she plays with small animals” – hence teaching her leaveits with small furries and the like 🙂 

    claire.

    #71706
    *Lassie*
    Member

    the boxer has now been successful in getting rid of Loki once using this method so it would seem likely it is something the dog has learned to do (taking into account he’s stray and 7).

    As we are not there we can’t really say if this is learnt behaviour or a one off the first time and then the same behaviour tried again, we don’t know what training the dog has received before or even if it’s his normal behaviour with other male dogs. He may just be pushing it because he doesn’t know what is expected of him, how long has he been in his new home?
    Widget also said she didn’t want to avoid the dog if possible and lose another walk as she had problems with another boxer.
    Widget is the behaviour of both boxers similar? or do you feel the new one is not so much a problem as the first.

    #71707

    Lassie Honey is the same – to the point she has worked to avoid confrontations with a bitch in her OWN hourse, Honeys a very ‘strong’ dog in her behaviour and body language – but she did absolutely everything in her power to avoid a confrontation with this particular dog – i had to intervene in the end because the other dog just kept pushing it……….

    Sarah think best thing have a chat with the other owner – is hard for me to say what to do i know what Honey would do but not how Loki will react, but maybe a chat with the other owner so he can work to manage his dog while you manage Loki  :-*

    #71708
    *Nick*
    Member

    Woofums, I agree with everything you’ve said in this thread. I have a feeling we’d be fine friends and our dogs.

    “It is irresponsible and illegal to “just let a dog be a dog”    ????!!!!!”  Seriously, what colour is the sky in your world  ?  One can only learn so much from books and theory.

    Widget, i think loki will be just fine. It’s a shame the other owner pulled their dog away.  In my experience Boxers are a funny lot (both ‘haha’ and ‘peculiar’)  If allowed to play and be boisterous they are wonderful dogs, if over-controlled they seem to get a bit confused .  Just like the clumsy child who accidentally hurts his friend and gets told off for it.

    Relax and enjoy your walk with Loki and his friends!

    #71709
    *Nick*
    Member

    Also, it sounds like the Boxer hasn’t been with his new humans very long either…he’s still adjusting to that pack as well, probably why you sensed some guarding .

    #71710
    Anonymous
    Guest

    No help Widget I’m afraid, we avoid all dogs if we can, but I would love to let them ‘just be dogs’.

    Maybe the boxer owner was a little anxious and was giving the dog the ‘wrong signals’ :-\
    I love to see dogs playing, Kodi gets really excited when she sees her girlie friends, just makes me smile to see her happy. Hope they get along without any problems in future :-*

    #71711

    I agree on the dogs being dogs point.  Having previously worked in a place where dogs weren’t allowed to do that, i have experienced lots of problems that come from not being able to do it.

    One example i’ll use is Xing loves to mount Izzy when we’re out, Izzy stands there and lets her (most of the time), and we let them do it.  We get some strange looks from people as if they’re thinking why are they letting that dog hump the other  😀  but its Xings way of inciting Izzy to play, and usually ends in Izzy dropping and rolling over to chew Xings face! 

    In my last workplace, they would have been told it was ‘rude’ (no im not joking!) and separated  :canadian: :canadian:

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