Would you buy without papers?

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  • #63372
    carthorse
    Member

    Hello, I am new.
    I have been saving for a french bulldog and have saved £1000. I have found a puppy but it is being sold without papers, they say to stop him going to breeding home. Is this ok, they have the Mum and Dad and have his sister but she may be sold today. I am viewing on Thursday . Help and advice please ;D

    #103850
    *Lassie*
    Member

    I wouldn’t buy it 🙁
    I don’t know what health checks French Bulldogs need but I know a lady who will ……….Val
    If there are no papers there were probably no health checks. The line about stopping him going to a breeding home is bullshite the breeder can put a restriction on the registration papers. Contact the Breed Club for advice.

    PS Welcome to the forum ;D 

    #103851
    carthorse
    Member

    Thank you, it is my daughter who is looking and has saved for a puppy for so long, I don’t want anything to go wrong. Should I ask about why they don’t have papers with a restriction on?

    #103852
    Sweetypye
    Member

    Walk away, it costs just as much if not more to look after an ill bred dog as it does a well bred one.

    FRENCH BULLDOG CLUB OF ENGLAND. Sec. Mrs Parsons. Tel No: 01580 881043
    MIDLAND AND NORTHERN COUNTIES FRENCH BULLDOG CLUB. Sec. Mr P Stemp. Tel No: 020 8348 2984
    http://www.frenchbulldogclubofengland.org/fbcepuppyinfo.html

    #103853

    hi,

    i wouldnt touch them with a barge pole – there is absolutely no reason for quality pups to be sold without papers.  breeders can endorse the papers with all sorts of things to restrict what new owners can do – this is the correct way to go about things.

    i wouldnt bother wasting your time with them and definatley wouldnt pay out that money as you could be in for all sorts of heartache.

    definately get in touch with the people that Allison has reccommended to find a good puppy that is KC reg – dont be fooled though by thinking “KC accredited” means “reputable” coz they are not the same thing – if you like check back here with the sire and dam’s affix you are thinking of and I expect someone will be able to show you how to check them out and how to find if they health test etc … 🙂

    claire x

    #103854
    Val
    Member

    Hallo and Welcome
    I would never recommend anyone to buy a pup without papers this person is charging full price for this pup and without papers thats a lot of money.
    If they do not want it bred from they can have the pedigree indorsed by the KC so that you cannot breed from it.
    Health checks for the FB should include  Von Willebrand’s disease (VWD), a bleeding disorder that is also found in humans and is similar to Hemophilia, which can impede their clotting. In conjunction to this, French Bulldogs may also suffer from thyroid condition they also suffer from  Brachycephalic syndrome, which is what creates the flat faced appearance of the Frenchie. As a result, one of the most common defects in French Bulldogs is elongated soft palate or cleft palate good breeders would be very aware of this.
    Frenchies may also have a tendency towards eye issues. Cherry eye, or everted third eyelid, has been known to occur, they can suffer  Glaucoma, retinal fold dsyplasia, corneal ulcers and juvenile cataracts again good breeders will screen all prospective breeding candidates through CERF – the Canine Eye Registration Foundation.
    French Bulldogs can also suffer from a condition called megaesophagus, a term which collectively describes several esophageal disorders and malformations in any combination from single-to-double or multiple. One of the more serious complications in a dog affected with megaesophagus is passive regurgitation, in which the affected dog vomits up food or phlegm after eating or exercise. Passive regurgitation can frequently result in aspiration pneumonia.

    Another result of the compacted air way of the French Bulldog is their inability to effectively regulate temperature. While a regular canine may suffer to some degree from the heat, to a Frenchie it may be lethal. It is imperative that they be protected from temperature extremes at all times, and that they always have access to fresh water and shade.

    So please make your daughter wait for a well bred puppy she will have to get on a list as all good breeders have waiting lists but it will be worht the wait in the meantime she can ask the breeders on this board anything she like on the breed we are more than willing to help.
    If these test have all been done they will be list on the sire and dams papers so ask to see their registeration papers If you have the Affix of this litter I will see what I can find out
    Val

    #103855
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    one less litter registered from the dam now means one more litter they can register from the dam later when over the allowed limit ….

    walk away….spend time researching breeder and lines…talk to others that have bought from the breeder you chose and if happy put yourself on the waiting list….explain to little girl that for a puppy that has a better chance of not being sick later it better to wait and look for a good one now….nothing worse than seeing a child and her beloved dog suffering…

    good luck and let us see pics when you do get one  🙂

    #103856
    twibstix
    Member

    [quote author=claire wills + bonnie link=topic=14016.msg264993#msg264993 date=1238516954]
    hi,

    i wouldnt touch them with a barge pole – there is absolutely no reason for quality pups to be sold without papers.  breeders can endorse the papers with all sorts of things to restrict what new owners can do – this is the correct way to go about things.

    Hi

    There are reasons actually.  We currently have a litter of pure bred Australian Kelpie pups that are absolutely and totally stunning.  They are not registered with the KC as they are not a recognised breed over here.  They could have, had both sire and dam been registered at birth with the Australian Kennel Club but neither were.  Our pups will be sold with a contract (drawn up by our solicitor) with endorsements we feel necessary.  No health checks were done on dog or bitch as AK are not known to suffer from any of the vagaries that malign many other pedigree breeds.

    #103857
    Val
    Member

    The difference being this young lady is buying a KC registered breed not a dog that is not even on the import register
    Val

    [quote author=twibstix link=topic=14016.msg265123#msg265123 date=1238671718]
    [quote author=claire wills + bonnie link=topic=14016.msg264993#msg264993 date=1238516954]
    hi,

    i wouldnt touch them with a barge pole – there is absolutely no reason for quality pups to be sold without papers.  breeders can endorse the papers with all sorts of things to restrict what new owners can do – this is the correct way to go about things.

    Hi

    There are reasons actually.  We currently have a litter of pure bred Australian Kelpie pups that are absolutely and totally stunning.  They are not registered with the KC as they are not a recognised breed over here.  They could have, had both sire and dam been registered at birth with the Australian Kennel Club but neither were.  Our pups will be sold with a contract (drawn up by our solicitor) with endorsements we feel necessary.  No health checks were done on dog or bitch as AK are not known to suffer from any of the vagaries that malign many other pedigree breeds.

    [/quote]

    #103858
    Sweetypye
    Member

    I find that statement that AK are not known to suffer any of the vagaries that malign other breeds quite astonishing when many AK breed specific sites state the following:

    Three of the main hereditary conditions to affect the Kelpie are Hip Dysplasia, late developing PRA (progressive retinal atrophy) and Cerebellar Abiotrophy; also known as CA or ataxia.

    #103859
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    and does anyone know if they are also ivermectin sensitive?

    #103860

    Hi,

    quote :

    There are reasons actually.  We currently have a litter of pure bred Australian Kelpie pups that are absolutely and totally stunning.  They are not registered with the KC as they are not a recognised breed over here.  They could have, had both sire and dam been registered at birth with the Australian Kennel Club but neither were.  Our pups will be sold with a contract (drawn up by our solicitor) with endorsements we feel necessary.  No health checks were done on dog or bitch as AK are not known to suffer from any of the vagaries that malign many other pedigree breeds.

    “absolutely and totally stunning” – thats your view
    “our pups are sold with a contract” – woop de doo, i have contracts for my crossbreed rescue dogs telling me not to breed / export them etc …

    “no health checks” – thats you showing your lack of breed knowledge and stupidity really, this kind of breeding is how other breeds got so many problems in the first place – you would think AK ppl would learn from others mistakes not just give silly excuses.

    As you say – nobody bothered to register your 2 dogs with the Aus KC so they are unregistered, you are feeding your puppy purchasers rubbish about them “not needing tests” I expect your solicitor will be ready to take your money again if anyone should come back with blind crippled offspring. 

    How you even dare to contest my point with the rubbish you are spouting I dont know!!  I just hope your puppy purchasers are savvy ppl and walk away.  Plenty of questionable but gorgeous looking Kelpie type dogs in rescue 😀

    Claire.

    #103861
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    maybe…just maybe…potential buyers will research and google and this will come up and…..we can live in hope eh…been here before me thinks….a certain ‘mini old english sheepdog’ rings a bell….

    #103862
    kizkiznobite
    Member

    ps

    all post saved…..

    #103863
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Carthorse  ;D I recognise you from HHO  🙂

    I also saw the pics of the pup on the dog section. Do let us know what you decide to do – and if you want help in finding a different breeder – you have come to the right place – lots of excellent advice on this board  🙂  Hope you come back and post more  🙂

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